Since I'm still enjoying my tour (sabatacle?) of the Province, I haven't had the opportunity to put together any new commentaries lately, however I thought I'd take a minute to publish this one which I originally wrote the July 22 edition of the Independent. Enjoy.
When you think about it, Newfoundland and Labrador, along with most other Canadian provinces, is little more than a glorified colony to the great Ontario metropolis, with the exception of Quebec that is. Quebec’s great struggle for independence — though not yet successful in its primary objective — has resulted in a situation where the rest of the country has wound up sitting on the sidelines of a battle of the titans. A battle for the biggest bone of them all, who will eventually be the top dog in a two-dog fight and who gets to pick the carcass of Canada clean.
With 308 seats in the House of Commons and 181of those in Quebec and the big O, it doesn’t take Rex Murphy or even Rex Goudie to figure out where that leaves the rest of us. In a nutshell, the boys’ club is full and they aren’t taking any new members. In that context, Newfoundland and Labrador’s seven seats don’t even register on the Ottawa radar and as long as the colonies keep the supplies pouring in, everyone who really matters in this dominion will be contented and maybe, just maybe, they won’t crush us for the sport.
As things stand, the role of the other Canadian provinces, or as I prefer to call us, the colonies, is little more than that of supplier to the great insatiable appetite of central Canada. The purpose of good old Newfoundland and Labrador, as it is with the other colonies, is to supply iron, nickel, uranium, gold and copper to satiate the appetite of the great smelters of metropolis. We are here to cut down forests so they can build their multi-million dollar hobbit holes and ensure that the great Ontario court has a steady supply of paper for their “national” newspapers and personal toiletry needs, both of which are interchangeable.
We are expected to suck our land and ocean’s dry of every last drop of oil and gas so, as the old song used to say, “… their derrieres won’t freeze” — likely when they expose them for us to kiss. Oh yes, let’s not forget, we are also expected to smile sweetly and bow our heads in respect when the great metropolites bestow upon us whatever pittance our unworthy slovenly selves might be given by their grace.
One hell of an existence, isn’t it? Oh, don’t get me wrong, it’s not all rape, pillage and plunder, no sir, not in the great Dominion of Canuckistan. We hear wonderful stories from time to time about how Newfoundland and Labrador is now second only to Alberta when it comes to leading the nation in economic growth. Sounds great until you realize that in Newfoundland if someone sells a gallon of blueberries near the overpass our numbers skyrocket into uncharted territory. If we keep our eye on the ball, who knows, some day, God willing, our revenues may even surpass those of a KFC outlet in Toronto. We’ll get some pat on the head then, eh? (I hope our revenues aren’t capped at the capacity of some Ontario chicken outlet. I’ll have to look into that.)
Simply put, Newfoundland and Labrador has about 500,000 people, or at least we did until the latest mass exodus. In other words, this place has the population of a small- to medium-sized North American city. We have huge oil and gas reserves, a landscape that’s a tourist’s dream, more mineral deposits than my Aunt Lucy’s bathtub, enough hydro power to supply 1,000 Sprung greenhouses and that’s not even considering the potential for a properly managed and rebuilt fishery, our human resources and our greatest untapped resource of all, a stubborn streak as wide as the Atlantic. With all of those riches available to our little city-state, has anyone ever stopped to ask the simple question: “Why the hell are we always one step ahead of the bill collector?”
Maybe it’s time for someone to ask that question. Maybe it’s time to find out if we’d be better off just sitting back and depending on the largesse of Ontario’s royalty or if we should jump in the pool and try to sink or swim on our own.
Thanks to the creative financial management of the great metropolis, the colony of Newfoundland and Labrador can barely survive on the pittance it’s allowed to keep. Maybe it’s time we took a step back, took a long hard look at ourselves and cut the apron strings. Maybe we should just bite the bullet, save up the damage deposit and go get a place of our own. I’ll be happy to chip in on the groceries, help cover the lights and whatever else I can do. Who’s with me? Hell, at least then if we starve to death we can always say we did it to ourselves. It’s either that or we can continue to sit on the couch and watch while our colony is robbed blind before our very eyes.
So which is it, should I ask Mr. Cleary if I can place an ad (in the Independent)for a nice big apartment or are we simply going to look for a good deal on a used couch that sits half a million?
I say place the ad. I've got an old T.V. we can use and I'll eat KD if that's what it takes.
ReplyDeleteWell written. I makes one think for sure.
ReplyDeleteOf course a resource-rich economy doesn't guarantee any financial success. Japan has nothing but it is Number two in the world in national wealth. ...but why is that? Why can't we be more involved in secondary processing and high end industry? Why do we have to beg and plead for a nickel processor in the province? Why do we send away gutted fish to foreign countries and buy it back as fish-sticks? Why does INCO assume that the Aboriginal Mine Workers in Voisey's Bay deserve less pay than workers in Ontario?
We are Canada's little third world province. No one but ourselves will prove them wrong.
The answer is wrapped up within Free Global Trade. The Canadian Government/Ottawa was one of its greatest proponents. And I am sure you know, who Ottawa had in mind while doing it, Central Canada, of course. It was the straw that completely broke the back of Newfoundland and Labrador's economy. As a result of that agreement now all of Newfoundland and Labrador's resources are travelling some place else, for some place else to be the primary beneficiary.
ReplyDeleteRemember when we wanted to ship bulk water, we thought for our benefit, bit Maude Barlow, the national chairperson of The Council of Canadians told us not to get that resource entwined in Free Global Trade, because we would also lose control of that as well. She said once control is given to capture a resource then it is impossible to turn of the tap to its use by others. I found that statement by Maude Barlow preposperous, at the time, but now I see it is true. We know all too well from our fish resource what has happened under free trade. Once there were, but four countries, fishing off our coast and now there are 19 or 20 countries destroying what little fish resource that remains.
But we cannot stop there and just complain about it, we now have to work at getting out of that Free Global Trade Agreements. The people of the United States who have been affected in an adverse way are already well under way in asking that the Free Global Trade Agreements be repealed. We, as Newfoundlanders and Labradoreans have to do the same thing.
Please refer to reports on Outsourcing and Outmigration, Odious Debts, Probe International and Transparency International.
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Of course a resource-rich economy doesn't guarantee any financial success.
ReplyDeleteBy Jove, I think he's got it!
Why can't we be more involved in secondary processing and high end industry?
What's stopping "we"?
Why do we have to beg and plead for a nickel processor in the province?
We have to beg and plead?
You on the clock right now WJM?
ReplyDeleteTo answer WJM's "question", during the last time I lived in Newfoundland (in 1996-97), there was talk of a processor being built in Newfoundland. In fact, even a site was selected. In 1999, there was talk that the nickel should be processed elsewhere in Canada. Premier Harris of Ontario argued that the nickel should be processed in Ontario, claiming that this was the "pan-Canadian" view. Meanwhile, he dismissed Premier Tobin's claim for the nickel to processed in Newfoundland as provincial. So, yes, we do have to beg and plead. Perhap federal drones in Ottawa might have missed that.
ReplyDeleteONLY in the other nine provinces of Canada, other than the province of Newfoundland and Labrador, can a resource rich province be GUARANTEED FINANCIAL SUCCESS by being the primary beneficiary from its own resources.
ReplyDeleteNever will it happened in NL, until we stand up and say an EMPHATIC "NO" to any more giveaway of our resources. Since there are too many EXTERNAL pressures on Newfoundland and Labrador from forces like Ottawa, the other provinces and the National Newspapers,for this province to give up its resources to feed the voracious manufacturing industries for the economies of the rest of Canada.
And it appears to me that we have had premiers of this province, who have allowed it to happen for whatever reason. Were they TRAITORS, that is for the general population to decide?
In the past, each time a NL resource came up for development, the rest of Canada, the Globe and Mail, The National Post and other newspapers made sure they would bring Newfoundland and Labrador down to its knees.
Ottawa through the National Newspapers had awful things printed in these newspapers columns about us. Of course, that sent the people of this province into a frency about what was printed, which, of course, corresponded at the time with the negotiations of the Voisey's Bay Nickel contract We were tied up in defending ourselves from the National Newspapers, and that is when the dastardly deed of getting that resource got completed in favour of the other provinces. The pilfering of the Voisey's Bay Nickel Resource is the one I remember the most. Ottawa, bullied NL into submission. As a result 2 cities Sudbury, Ontario and Thompson, Manitoba got to live another 15 years each, as there is a 30 year supply of Nickel ore going out of Voisey's Bay.
The Prime Minister had a session with the Globe and Mail, and after that, there were awful columns written on this province in that newspaper about our people. We became very angry and focused on those columns. These columns served the purpose of pulling the wool over our eyes.
During the time, even our own Premier resigned his premiership and went back to Ottawa and took a position there, and became Industry Minister. But, not of course, before he, himself sent up a smoke screen on the Voisey's Bay resource that was being negotiated at the time. While in Ottawa he was given the portfolio of Industry Minister and bestowed with all kinds of directorships of large Corporations and he even got a job with ROB TV as co-host of a business show. In my world, I would call this deceitfulness, and it probably caused us to lose the position of being the primary beneficary of the Voisey's Bay Nickel Ore Resource, which would have guaranteed us better financial success for this province.
If we are going to be the primary beneficiary of our hydro resources we cannot export power either, it should be used to build industry in Labrador.
ReplyDeleteSue - You are ABSOLUTELY right on!
ReplyDeleteI personally think it would also be great if a kind of "fixed link" could be established to bring Churchill Falls hydro electric power to the island. By the way, I also think that everything mined in Labrador should be processed there. Labrador and minerals... Newfoundland and fish. With each primary resource, Newfoundland and Labrador is seen as place to money from, not in. And if you point it out that fact, others will just call you a whiner.
ReplyDeleteSue - I wholeheartedly agree that we cannot and should not export power, we have to stop exporting any and all of our resources.
ReplyDeleteAs you know in the past that is all we have ever done. We have exported all of our resources in the past, including our educated human resource, and we are doing the same now in the present. Some of which come to mind are Fish - Hydroelectric Power - Minerals - Oil. All of these wonderfully rich resources could have worked wonders for us with regards to having guaranteed a financial success from our resources.
WJM said that a resource-rich economy doesn't guarantee a province a financial success. Well WJM politicians should insist that NL's resources work for it; and Ottawa and the other provinces should be in agreement, then and only then will this province be guaranteed a financial success and I am positive that if we get to be the primary beneficiary of our rich resources, we will have a Tiger Economy. It will happen. Like Sue says, why wouldn't it? Since industry migrates to where the resources are. If they can\t get the resources in Sudbury, Thompson or Toronto, and if the resources are in Newfoundland and and Labrador and we say that we are not letting those resources go, but instead they have to be used for industry here, well then industry will migrate here. Industry is not stupid, it knows what it has to do to survive.
But "yes" WJM if our politicians are not diligent and are not working on NEWFOUNDLAND AND LABRADOR'S behalf, then it won't happen. And, of course, Ottawa and the other provinces that skew matters have to stop their taunts, when we say we want our resources working for us, they have to listen and say it has to be so.
What happened in Ireland was the countries under the umbrella of the European Union decided that for Ireland to get ahead, Ireland had to be given a break with taxes for a number of years. Ireland didn't even have any resources to rely on. Ireland, as a result, became known as the Celtic Tiger. Now what Ottawa, Quebec and Ontario have to do is say, similar to what the European Union said about Ireland. We have to let Newfoundland and Labrador be the primary beneficiary of its resources; and then and only then will you see NL becoming a strong province with substantial economies, both urban and rural. Ottawa, Quebec and Ontario have to let it happen or it never will. And as a result Ottawa, Quebec and Ontario will be all the richer for it. Plus it won't appear that Newfoundland and Labrador is a basket case relying on the rest of Canada for help. Right now the way things are with all our resources going out, we end up having the #1 GDP statistic in Canada, but we are still the basket case when it comes to the EI statistic. So we never get recognition for what we contribute to Canada by exporting all of our resources and never being the primary beneficiary of any of them.
It is very strange isn't it, how Ontario was guaranteed a financial success having to use other provinces' resources, such as Newfoundland and Labrador's.
The irony is that Newfoundland and Labrador would never have had the opportunity to use another province's resources. Newfoundland and Labrador is having a hard enough time trying to get anything out of its own resources. Take for instance the fish resource - our fishers are out of work, while foreign nations are fishing to their hearts content the last fish hanging by its fingertips on the Grand Banks of Newfoundland. Hydroelectric power, Labradorians and Newfoundlanders are paying one of the highest prices for electricity, because there wasn't enough hydroelectric power preserved from the Upper Churchill project for any industry at all, and very little that we could rely on for residential use. Most all of hydroelectric from that project was sent to Quebec, so that Quebec ended up being the primary beneficiary of that resource. Quebec now makes billions of dollars from that resource, while we here in Labrador and Newfoundland are fumbling in the dark and the cold and we are paying through ournoses for it. We already received a 10 or 12 per cent increase in July 2006, now Newfoundland Hydroelectric is asking for another 4.5 per cent increase. This is shocking to me when Quebec makes billions on that Hydroelectric harnessed at the Upper Churchill in Labrador. And NOW Quebec and Ontario are looking again to be the primary beneficiary of the Lower Churchill hydroelectric project. If our politicians allow a repeat of the Upper Churchill deal to happen, well then we are indeed a very inept people who are not fit to govern anything. Sue I think what you are advocating is the only way to go. If the Lower Churchill Project is developed, it should be developed so that the province of Labrador and Newfoundland is the primary beneficiary of that resource, all the way.
Sue I haven't heard what Premier Williams is looking for out of the Lower Churchill, but I do hope he is going to do it differently than the Upper Churchill. I will conclude, I hope he will develop the Lower Churchill Hydroelectric for the benefit of Industry in Labrador and Newfoundland. The industry that Quebec and Ontario are dreaming of from this project should go nowhere but Labrador first, and if there is any left over Newfoundland second. I would like to hear Premier Williams make a statement on what is happening with that file to date. It would be good governance on his part if he did that.
I'm curious, are there any political parties or lobby groups that represent the interests of Newfoundland and Labrador in respect to the issues raised here? If not, why is that?
ReplyDeleteThey are to busy infighting to actually represent Newfoundland and Labrador issues first and foremost. Besides it doesn't matter on a federal level for the reasons Myles has espoused. We only have a 2% say while Ontario and Quebec have a 60% say in the affairs of the country.
ReplyDeleteIt is sad to say but the only equality in the Dominion of Canukistan the provinces have is the option to separate and become an autonomous state, country, republic whatever. Anything but a colony of Ontario and Quebec.
You can't even blame the political parties because they are just working with the system that is there. Toe the party line.
Quebec and Ontario will never relinquise their hold on power in the Senate or the Supreme court.
I know I for one don't feel my morals and ethics are being properly represented in the Supreme court of Canada by 3 Judges from Quebec and three judges from Ontario with three judges coming from the nether regions of the other 8 provinces and three territories.
No way in hell the nether regions would have allowed swinger clubs to become legal. Just as an example.
NL-expatriate, you make some valid points but why are we feeding political energies into political parties and lobby groups that are committed to a (as you point out yourself) dysfunctional federalism. Why is it that Newfoundland and Labrador does not have something equivalent to the PQ or Bloc? The Bloc does not expect to win a federal election but represent Quebec's interests when and where it is convenient. Why do we have a provincial political spectrum that will not threaten greater, more radical action if the province's downward spiral continues? What do we owe to a federal system that by its very nature (in the division of powers, etc.) means NL's fisheries and oil are considered federal entities but Alberta's oil is it's own? Simply put those who care about NL (whether or not it would remain part of Canada) must recognize and advocate the need for its resources to be directly administered at the provincial level. Such a focus would find its natural manifestation to be in the form of a provincial party unafraid to pull Quebec-style blackmail with the threat of sovereignty.
ReplyDeleteWe have been beaten into submission. Led to believe we are a drain on the economy of Canada. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you read Brian Tobins book or the discusssion paper put out by The Independant about NL's contribution to Canada's economy they lay it out in very specific terms how we contribute more than our share to Canada.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.theindependent.ca/pdf/Cost_benefit_methodology.pdf
Bought off by UI hush money to quieten the masses until the next crisis. Not once has Canada offered a long term solution to our federally created centris problems. It's always the cheap route with hush money in the form of UI and such.
http://www.exec.gov.nl.ca/royalcomm/default.html
The Grand Banks alone is the size of the three prairie provinces combined.
N&L is three times the size of the other three maritime provinces combined and that doesn't even take into account our territorial waters which are the size of the three prairie provinces combined.
During the last federal election Harper told the electorate in BC that he would establish a regular Army presence in BC because it presently doesn't have one. News flash Mr Harper NL doesn't have a regular Army, Navy nor Air force presence in NL. No just because we have a skeleton crew manned base doesn't make it a base.
http://www.mun.ca/harriscentre/Federal_Presence_Report_FINAL_WEB.pdf
I refuse to vote in any more federal elections. By voting in a federal election you are in essense lending credance to the continuation of the centrist agenda of Canada due mainly because of Canada's inherantly flawed political system.
http://www.saskndp.com/history/mouseland.html
http://www2.marianopolis.edu/quebechistory/federal/npolicy.htm
By not voting you will send a louder message than you ever could with the continuation of electing our masters from on high in Ontario.
Or you could spoil your ballot to send a message that your not happy with our Democratic/Imperialistic country.
Another option would be to vote for an independant so that the party line doesn't have to be followed and you might actually get a say in the goings on in the country.
Then there is the local interest party like the Bloc in Quebec.
Yes NL does have one. It is called the Newfoundland and Labrador First party led by Tom Hickey a former MHA.
http://www.nlfirst.ca/
To answer WJM's "question", during the last time I lived in Newfoundland (in 1996-97), there was talk of a processor being built in Newfoundland. In fact, even a site was selected. In 1999, there was talk that the nickel should be processed elsewhere in Canada. Premier Harris of Ontario argued that the nickel should be processed in Ontario, claiming that this was the "pan-Canadian" view. Meanwhile, he dismissed Premier Tobin's claim for the nickel to processed in Newfoundland as provincial. So, yes, we do have to beg and plead. Perhap federal drones in Ottawa might have missed that.
ReplyDeleteNo, "we" don't have to "beg and plead."
Terrestrial mines and minerals are under EXCLUSIVE provincial jurisdiction. The only way they can be mined and shipped is if "we" permit them. Mike Harris, not being, and never having been, the Premier of NL, had no role in any decisions concerning LABRADOR'S nickel ore.
What part of this are you having trouble understanding?
ONLY in the other nine provinces of Canada, other than the province of Newfoundland and Labrador, can a resource rich province be GUARANTEED FINANCIAL SUCCESS by being the primary beneficiary from its own resources.
ReplyDeleteHuh? What do you base this assessment on?
Never will it happened in NL, until we stand up and say an EMPHATIC "NO" to any more giveaway of our resources.
Which resources have "we" given away previously?
Since there are too many EXTERNAL pressures on Newfoundland and Labrador from forces like Ottawa,
Pressures such as what?
the other provinces
No other province has jurisdiction over NL's resources.
and the National Newspapers,
What do newspapers have to do with anything?
for this province to give up its resources to feed the voracious manufacturing industries for the economies of the rest of Canada.
What's stopping you from starting a manufactury in Newfoundland or Labrador?
Were they TRAITORS, that is for the general population to decide?
What are you proposing; a revolution? Ceaucescu's fate?
In the past, each time a NL resource came up for development, the rest of Canada, the Globe and Mail, The National Post and other newspapers made sure they would bring Newfoundland and Labrador down to its knees.
How did they do this?
(I'm especially intrigued by the newspaper bit... how did that work? I guess since Danny has told you to hate the national newspapers, you MUST hate the national newspapers. They Are The Enemy.)
The pilfering of the Voisey's Bay Nickel Resource
Why is "Nickel Resource" capitalized? It's not a proper name.
Ottawa, bullied NL into submission.
How?
As a result 2 cities Sudbury, Ontario and Thompson, Manitoba got to live another 15 years each, as there is a 30 year supply of Nickel ore going out of Voisey's Bay.
Where, again, do this figures come from?
The Prime Minister had a session with the Globe and Mail, and after that, there were awful columns written on this province in that newspaper about our people.
Which Prime Minister? When? I'd like to look up those columns. Did the PM tell the Globe to print them?
While in Ottawa he was given the portfolio of Industry Minister and bestowed with all kinds of directorships of large Corporations
He was serving as directors of corporations while Industry Minister? That's scandalous! If true.
it probably caused us to lose the position of being the primary beneficary of the Voisey's Bay Nickel Ore Resource, which would have guaranteed us better financial success for this province.
NL already IS the primary beneficiary, and it already IS providing "better financial success", whatever you mean by that. What I mean by it is increased provincial revenues (which the Newfoundland nationalists STILL won't spend in Labrador) and increased provincial GDP.
We only have a 2% say while Ontario and Quebec have a 60% say in the affairs of the country.
ReplyDelete"We" also have 1.5% of the population.
Quebec and Ontario will never relinquise their hold on power in the Senate
Ontario and Quebec together have less than half the Senate seats.
or the Supreme court.
What about the Supreme Court?
No way in hell the nether regions would have allowed swinger clubs to become legal. Just as an example.
Why do you figure not?
or the discusssion paper put out by The Independant about NL's contribution to Canada's economy
ReplyDeleteA paper which is full of crap, but people treat it with greater reverence than scripture for some reason.
The Grand Banks alone is the size of the three prairie provinces combined.
And?
N&L is three times the size of the other three maritime provinces combined
About the same ratio as Labrador to Newfoundland. What about it?
and that doesn't even take into account our territorial waters which are the size of the three prairie provinces combined.
Our territorial waters are nowhere near that big. Where do you get that "statistic" from?
Yes NL does have one. It is called the Newfoundland and Labrador First party led by Tom Hickey a former MHA.
http://www.nlfirst.ca/
Yeah, who got only 19 more votes than spoiled ballots the one time they've ever run for anything.
I think WJM is getting time and a half for this tripe. Looks like he's had his training in disinformation from the Gestapo. In any case I still think you should block him from posting. Right now he has gotten to the point where he is actually yapping on about partial sentences. Soon he'll be yapping on about each individual word posted. It's getting unbearable. I have a five year old that I need to explain things to, I don't really want to start having to explain things to this particular bonehead. He reminds me of how they use bebate club tactics 101, just keep questioning everything the other peson says and you will eventually, and effectively bog down any debate. Don't believe me? just look at his reply to the various posts and you'll see one stupid question after another. Very skillful indeed. Again WJM is but an irritating puppet, we need to cut the strings.
ReplyDeleteWJM - what do you get out of these debates? Is there anything you agree with, find intelligent/interesting, etc?
ReplyDeleteWJM the Federal propagandist with Alzheimers asked.
ReplyDeleteOur territorial waters are nowhere near that big. Where do you get that "statistic" from?
Please be sure to read this document with a critical eye because it to is a propaganda document.
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/overfishing-surpeche/documents/advisory_e.htm
I wrote a small blog debunking some of the propaganda, but the document is rife with contradictions and federal propaganda.
http://nl-outsidethebox.blogspot.com/2006/07/custodial-management-overfishing.html
This document is the only place to have stated his statistic it is common knowledge.
Correction
ReplyDeleteThis document is not the only place
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/newsrel/2006/hq-ac26_e.htm
http://www.vanaqua.org/aquanew/fullnews.php?id=826
WJM,
ReplyDeleteNice to see you're back at work. I don't have trouble with comprehending things. I was not arguing about jurisdiction at all. It's the politics that sucks. Do you honestly believe Ontario's wishes are irrelevant when it comes to where Labrador nickel is processed? If you keep misintrepreting blog entries, your promotion may have to wait. By the way, how much taxpyers' money do you make? I'm just curious.
Hey Gordon ... let me do an impersonation of WJM on your last post just for demontration purposes...
ReplyDeleteWJM
Nice to see you're back at work.
You can see me at work? Are you a spy now?
I don't have trouble with comprehending things.
What are these things you are talking about?
I was not arguing about jurisdiction at all.
Well exactly what was it you were arguing about?
It's the politics that sucks.
Pretty vague, please be more specific, what you do know about politics?
Do you honestly believe Ontario's wishes are irrelevant when it comes to where Labrador nickel is processed?
Are you now an expert on Ontarios's wishes?
If you keep misinterpreting blog entries, your promotion may have to wait.
How exactly have I misinterpreted blog entries?
By the way, how much taxpyers' money do you make?
Why do you presume I make taxpayers money?
I'm just curious.
Curious about what? Salary? Ontario? politics?
You see it's very easy to be a bonehead all you have to do is question everything and you can indeed question every sentence that someone posts. Again it's debate club 101, it's also juvenile and non productive. That is why we should just block this guy and stop wasting energy because that's what a$$holes like this are mandated to do, drain energy and bog down any discussion. Let's not play his silly game.
Starrigan,
ReplyDeleteThat was my point. Patriot, it's your call, but I think WJM should be blocked. He's just trying to earn his spurs for a more challenging position. Let him do it some other way. By the way, there is a precedent for this. Look at Ed Hollett's "Bondpapers". You'll notice there are no posts from readers. There have not been any for two years. Ed blocked all of them because there was a Tory equivalent of WJM sending stock Tory propaganda to his site. Now, I think Ed's blog is worse off for not letting anyone responds to his posts, but he was well within his right to block someone who was on public payroll to throw him off. Now, WJM has been exposed. He has been proven to be deceitful. He has zero credibility left. To paraphrase Bob Dylan, "He is invisible now. He has no secrets to conceal." Do this guy a favour and let him earn his federal drone spurs some other way.
Dam that was funny Starrigan.
ReplyDeleteKinda like the spoofs from the Beer and Pop corn and Liberal ad campaign during the last federal election Soldiers in your cities with guns LOL.
I'd block WJM for the simple reason that he doesn't want two-way conversation or debate. I'm not opposed to him airing his views, it's obviously ideal to have a balance of perspectives, but he simply savages reader's comments without giving them opportunity to respond or develop ideas. He's a poor, miserable Ottawa bureaucrat with no intention of learning from or finding common ground with others.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Myles should block Wally. Occasionally he has pestered his way into my own tent and I have been tempted to give him the slipper swap. But I think Myles is hoping to leave an open discussion and encourage free speech. Compared to the hateful language and threats that he has gotten from Animal Rights Nutbars. WJM is harmless. In fact he is on occasion interesting to read.
ReplyDeleteI have taken the approach of totally ignoring WJM's pointwise "but why" statements. These are as Starrigan has said Debate 101 stuff. I pause only if I see a proper written paragraph from him that appears to have some merit. These are few and far between - but hey it isn't wasting paper - just increases your scrolling time.
For the record (because I know I will be asked) - what I see as having merit is information about Labrador from a Labradorian perspective - minus the Debate 101 trifle.
Wally once argued my choice of colloquial in referred to male gonads. That's what we're dealing with folks :)
Long Live OttaWally.
I can't beleive you folks are having a serious discussion about whether to ban wally. it's completely retarded. let the man speak. he's right about the paranoid style in newfounland politics these days, and I suspect many know it. You guys need to lighten up.
ReplyDeleteWJM - what do you get out of these debates? Is there anything you agree with,
ReplyDeleteSometimes, but life and blogs would be boring if they consisted of people sitting around agreeing with each other.
find intelligent/interesting, etc?
Intelligent? On occasion. Interesting? Always; just not often in the way the original authors intended.
This document is the only place to have stated his statistic it is common knowledge.
ReplyDeleteIt is common knowledge that Canada has a 200-mile EEZ.
Territorial Waters, however, extend only 12 miles out from the shore, plus interior waters and waters that are territorial through the "jaws of the land" principle. Beyond that there's the Contiguous Zone, and then the 200-mile EEZ.
But EEZ and Territorial Waters are NOT the same thing. Canada does NOT have "Territorial Waters" 200 miles out.
Correction
ReplyDeleteThis document is not the only place
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/newsrel/2006/hq-ac26_e.htm
http://www.vanaqua.org/aquanew/fullnews.php?id=826
What do either of these links do to support your contention that Canada's Territorial Waters "are the size of the three prairie provinces combined"?
Do you honestly believe Ontario's wishes are irrelevant when it comes to where Labrador nickel is processed?
ReplyDeleteYes, just as NL's are irrelevant when it comes to where Ontario salt or gold is processed.
Please, explain for us the mechanism by which Ontario has legal sway over determining where Labrador nickel is processed.
By the way, how much taxpyers' money do you make? I'm just curious.
Continue to be curious.
I'd block WJM for the simple reason that he doesn't want two-way conversation or debate.
ReplyDeleteAu contraire; I'd love lots, lots, LOTS more of it.
Many of the questions I've posed in this thread have gone unanswered. That makes me sad.
I'm not opposed to him airing his views, it's obviously ideal to have a balance of perspectives, but he simply savages reader's comments without giving them opportunity to respond or develop ideas.
They are just as capable of plugging in the word verification and hitting "Login and Publish" as you or I.
He's a poor, miserable Ottawa bureaucrat with no intention of learning from or finding common ground with others.
I've tried.
Newfoundland nationalists won't find any common ground with me, either.
I have taken the approach of totally ignoring WJM's pointwise "but why" statements.
ReplyDeleteWhen I ask "why", there's always a reason. I guess the other end doesn't always appreciate that.
Wally once argued my choice of colloquial in referred to male gonads. That's what we're dealing with folks :)
Well, when you confuse the Hawaiian "kahuna" and the Spanish "cojones", dangit, someone has to speak up!
Long Live OttaWally.
Et vive le Labrador libre ! :)
Need I say more???
ReplyDeleteWJM,
ReplyDelete"Yes, just as NL's are irrelevant when it comes to where Ontario salt or gold is processed.
Please, explain for us the mechanism by which Ontario has legal sway over determining where Labrador nickel is processed."
- NL's wishes are irrelevant, but Ontario's and Quebec's wishes are very relevant indeed.
- Who is talking about the legal process? Are you implying that politics does not exist in Canada?
"Continue to be curious."
- True Central Canadian arrogance. Hey folks, your tax dollars are paying for this. What do you think?
WJM,
ReplyDelete"but life and blogs would be boring if they consisted of people sitting around agreeing with each other."
Is that why you block opinions from your blog?
Gordon said of wjm;
ReplyDeleteIs that why you block opinions from your blog?
I have posted opinions on wjm’s site, or maybe he has others other than http://labradore.blogspot.com/
Wjm can defend himself, but me thinks too much is being made of wjm and his some what rebarbative style. I think he does it to rile.
I have a quick question regarding the boundaries of Newfoundland and Labrador in terms of the oceanic survey of the edge of the continental shelf. Assuming that the entire grand banks were within the continental shelf as defined by the UN, is the portion which is south and east of Newfoundland, and which is east of labrador a part of the province, or would it become just a part of Canada and not part of the province?
ReplyDeleteIt is a sad sad statement that someone who works for a Federal Liberal political party Todd Russell has as an agenda to splitting up the very province he is supposed to represent.
ReplyDeleteSo is it not true WJM that your real intentions are to have Labrador separate from Newfoundland and Labrador.
Your comments and ideology certainly seem to represent just that.
Maybe you should be working in the Labrador parties constituency office.
Enemies within, once again conflict of interest rules the day in NL.
Wallace McLean has been the working in the Labrador constituency office for 7 years.
"Wallace McLean, who has worked in Labrador constituency office in Happy Valley-Goose Bay for seven years, said he hopes Elections Canada will review the circumstances that candidates are facing.
"I'm sure that we'll be hearing from a lot of candidates from northern remote ridings right across the country about some of the challenges that they're facing, especially in a winter campaign," he said.
http://www.cbc.ca/nl/story/nf_labrador_costs_20060123.html
I must say I do agree with him that more funding is needed for campaigns in the big land. Which is larger than NFLD, PEI, NB, and NS combined.
Yes your right about the territorial waters. Symantics I mean't continental shelf or 200 mile EEZ unsure which the articles are referring to.
Gordon said...
ReplyDeleteIs that why you block opinions from your blog?
I don't. You are either mistaken or lying. Which is it?
Assuming that the entire grand banks were within the continental shelf as defined by the UN, is the portion which is south and east of Newfoundland, and which is east of labrador a part of the province, or would it become just a part of Canada and not part of the province?
ReplyDeletePart of Canada to some extent, not part of the province, except to the extent that Newfoundland, uniquely among provinces, has a provincial territorial sea.
It is a sad sad statement
ReplyDeleteIt is a sad sad statement that Newfoundland nationalists see anyone who speaks up for Labrador as trying to "split up" the province.
So is it not true WJM that your real intentions are to have Labrador separate from Newfoundland and Labrador.
Nope.
Your comments and ideology certainly seem to represent just that.
They always seem to, to paranoid and delusional Newfoundland nationalists, whenever people such as myself speak out in a pro-Labrador way.
Enemies within, once again conflict of interest rules the day in NL.
"Enemies". Good grief. How Kafka of you.
WJM,
ReplyDeleteI asked, rhetorically, "Is that why you block opinions from your blog?"
You replied, "I don't. You are either mistaken or lying. Which is it?"
So here's my answer. I am neither lying nor mistaken. You admitted to blocking opinions on Liam O'Brien's website, http://www.responsiblegovernemntleague.blogspot.com
I did no such thing. I have deleted a very small handful (literally, you could count them on one hand) of postings which were abusive or slanderous, but otherwise, other than spam, anything goes. Postings are permitted, unmoderated and unfiltered, and unlike Sue K-D (hi!) I don't block any particular posters or groups of posters.
ReplyDeleteWJM,
ReplyDeleteWell, that's not the message one gets considering what's been written before. Consider the following exhange between you and Liam O'Brien on November 17, 2005.
Liam O'Brien said...
PS Wally -- Welcome to a blog where people aren't cut off in mid-discussion . . . it's a little different than yours in that way . . .
WJM said...
My sandbox, my rules. You don't like? Don't play? Wanna play? Rules.
Liam O'Brien said...
I think sandbox is indeed an apt description for a blog where the owner cuts off posts not just for normal reasons (profanity/attacks) but because you don't like what you're hearing. Take the toys in from the sandbox if you can't stand the critiques. . . oh wait, you already did . . .
WJM said...
ReplyDeleteMy sandbox, my rules. You don't like? Don't play? Wanna play? Rules.
Yip. An exchange stemming from the deletion of a grand total of three abusive postings, not all of which were from Liam.
Liam's posted before and since, so we're cool. So, going back to your original statement ("Is that why you block opinions from your blog?") you were either mistaken or lying, since I don't block opinions from it.
So which is it? Mistaken? or lying?
So, you deleted. There is no difference between deleting and blocking. If the posting cannot be read, it cannot be read. I am not at all convinced I am either mistaken or lying. What was Liam doing, being abusive or being slanderous?
ReplyDeleteSo, you deleted. There is no difference between deleting and blocking.
ReplyDeleteYes, there is. An individual posting can be deleted. "Blocking" refers to an action taken against a poster or group of posters.
I have not blocked any poster or group of posters from making comments. I deleted about three individual comments as going way beyond the bounds of civility and possibly legality. Everything else Liam has posted, I have had no problem with, and he continues to post.
If the posting cannot be read, it cannot be read. I am not at all convinced I am either mistaken or lying. What was Liam doing, being abusive or being slanderous?
Being abusive in a certain posting or postings. Hence those postings, and only those, were expunged. No one has been blocked.
WJM,
ReplyDeleteAnd an individual posting can be blocked.
As for Liam's abusive comment, I have no idea what he wrote. All I can say is that if all you blocked were abusive or slanderous postings, then I stand corrected on that score.
And an individual posting can be blocked.
ReplyDeleteNo, an individual posting can be deleted.
"Blocking" refers, on the internet, to an action that is taken against a particular person, or robotically against certain pre-defined content. I know some people who are new to the net don't understand that, but please try.