Premier Danny Williams’ threat to torpedo the federal Conservatives in the next election has resulted in the pelican plop hitting the fan and led to a rather odd reaction from the provincial Liberal party in Newfoundland and Labrador.
Current and former Liberal leaders, Gerry Reid and Roger Grimes, have both condemned Williams’ approach. In his exuberance Roger Grimes now sounds like a Conservative campaign manager talking up the virtues of MPs Norm Doyle, Fabian Manning and Loyola Hearn. Both men are saying the Province has nothing to gain by taking a hard line with Ottawa. “What if Harper gets upset and won’t provide loan guarantees for the Lower Churchill”, they moan like two aging hens sitting on a nest of hard boiled eggs. Give me a break!
I find it very interesting that these supposedly experienced politicians don’t see the very political game happening right under their noses. Mr. Grimes, Mr. Reid, has either of you ever negotiated a contract? A solid one I mean. Sorry, perhaps I shouldn’t ask that while our people continue to deal with a number of agreements signed by you folks in the past.
In his response to the comments Williams came as close as he could to telling the Liberals what he was up to when he noted that by shoring up the federal position the Liberals were weakening Newfoundland and Labrador’s. Apparently neither man understood the subtext of that message.
Gerry, Roger, not to put words in the Premier’s mouth but likely his message didn’t refer to equalization talks alone. I may have referred to the Province’s overall negotiating position with Ottawa. You see to negotiate effectively you should start from a position of strength not weakness. The Upper Churchill is a clear example of what happens if you forget that. In order to get a good deal you want to strengthen your own position and weaken your opponent’s while putting him off balance. It’s that simple.
That’s the background info gentlemen now here’s the scenario we have before us.
During the last election Harper promised to remove non-renewable resource revenue from equalization and said no province would be worse off as a result of reforms. Only an idiot would believe the PM can live up to the first promise and only a bigger one would allow him to renege on the second.
The PM can’t remove those revenues. Quebec and Ontario, the two most politically powerful provinces in the Country, simply won’t allow it. I know it, the people of the province know it and the Premier knows it. That, along with Mr. Harper’s election promise, means however that the province has a card it can play during upcoming talks.
Thanks to the Premier’s recent tirade the PM is now weakened and off balance with equalization talks looming. Harper is being attacked from all directions and his numbers are plummeting fast. To save face and get his poll numbers up he has to find a way to get out of the very public mess Williams put him in. So the question isn’t so much if we’ll be able to protect our revenues but what Harper is willing to sweeten the pot with. In a sense we’ve won before the talks even begin.
Perhaps Harper will “sort of” honor his commitment by removing a percentage of resource revenues. That move might placate Ontario and Quebec and if you want to split hairs Harper can claim he never said he’d remove 100% of revenues, just that he’d remove them. If he did that we would keep all offshore revenues for the life of the accord agreement and half of them after that date, which is more than we have today. Who knows how he’ll handle resource revenues but what matters is that we put him in the mess and he wants out very, very badly so he’ll find a way.
As for the Province losing money through equalization reform, Harper simply won’t do it, not now. The PM knows exactly how loud the people of this province can get. He’s heard how deafening we can be on two separate occasions and from both sides of the House. The PM isn’t going to want to deal with that during an election. It won’t take much to ensure that this Province doesn’t lose any money and that’s exactly what Harper will do, one way or another, thanks in part to the very loud reminder we just gave him. I’ll bet visions of Paul Marten’s embarrassment at the hands this Province have been flashing through his mind ever since last weekend. The back door is closed.
Why all the noise and what does Danny boy hope to gain from all this if not protecting our revenues? Let me tell you.
The whole exercise was meant to soften up the ground before going into the equalization talks by publicly positioning our province as royally ticked at Harper’s lies and his plans to rob us blind. Now our negotiators, likely behind closed, locked and very well bolted doors, have the leverage they need to talk to the PM about other key issues of importance to the Province. The PM is not a stupid man. He knows that in order to keep Danny from throwing a monkey wrench into the election he’ll have to step up to the plate on something we want. It’s called politics guys and you should really try to learn the game sometime.
It’s likely none of us will know what the backroom talks cover off but when you realize that all this noise may well allow us to keep every cent of offshore and equalization revenue that we have today and could potentially get us an additional 50% after the accord expires along with another deal or two to be named later, the result isn’t that bad. You see Gerry and Roger there is indeed something to be gained by taking a hard line with Ottawa.
Maybe the PM will suddenly decide to come on side with fallow field legislation or find a bigger role for 5 Wing Goose. Maybe he’ll commit to some big bucks for the Lower Churchill or an increased federal presence in the Province, who knows. All I know is that I’m no politician, thank God, but even I can see that the broken axe handles being thrown about have a lot more to do with side issues than they do with equalization. I’d have thought the same idea would have crossed the minds of the Liberal leadership but apparently it hasn’t. Well if nothing else they’ve received a valuable lesson in politics and negotiation here today and for that the whole Province can be thankful. It may even come in handy some day.
Hilarious!
ReplyDeleteSo you believe Harper is now trembling in his boots, afraid of hanging on to three seats in your province when he is looking at many more in Quebec? Wake up and smell the java! If quebec wants something from Harper (ie. more equalization money), and if Harper can grease the skids in Quebecs favour, he assures he can keep his seats in La Belle Province, or maybe gain more seats...well you do the math einstein!
Looks like Danny Williams, matches and a can of gasoline is a recipe for your provinces continued failure!
to 'hillarious'...you sound like one of those people who just don't want NL to get ahead and find everything we do as a reason to moan...
ReplyDeleteI don't think the assertion is that Harper will be trembling in his boots, but that he will be more aware that he need take NL (Williams) seriously in the next little while. Perception is everything in politics is it not? Creating a position of strenght doesn't necessarily mean you expect to 'bitch slap' the opponent...just that you hope they don't bitch slap you!!!
to 'hillarious'...you sound like one of those people who just don't want NL to get ahead and find everything we do as a reason to wag your finger in our faces..., so Take off Eh!...
ReplyDeleteI don't think the assertion is that Harper will be trembling in his boots, but that he will be more aware that he need take NL (Williams) seriously in the next little while. Perception is everything in politics is it not? Creating a position of strenght doesn't necessarily mean you expect to 'bitch slap' the opponent...just that you hope they don't bitch slap you!!!
You people need only look in the mirror to understand why it is that you are always down and out. You keep electing messiah's, hoping that they will lead you to the promised land, only to find that they are mere mortals, flawed mere mortals at that!
ReplyDeleteRemember Tobin aka Captain canada, another flop in a long line of flops.
And yes, it is hilarious to think that Danny Williams is intimidating the feds with his temper tantrums!
People outside NL just laugh at Williams and his hysterical tantrums.
ReplyDeleteYou Nlanders are so lucky you joined Canada. The taxes other Canadians pay, keep you alive.
Yes, and the resources the rest of the Canadian Provinces steal from Newfoundland and Labrador really keep you alive. If we had just 25 per cent of the resources that go out of this province for the good of the other provinces, we would need not worry. Some of those natural resources are hydroelectric, oil, fish, minerals and our educated human resource.
ReplyDeleteI rest my case.
Patriot- You actually believe that an "outcry" from Newfoundland did anything to change the minds of senators in Ottawa. Be real.
ReplyDeleteAs for calling me a Mainlander suit yourself. I am and will always be a newfoundlander. And yes, we DO need people to help us and tell us what to do sometimes because we sure as hell ain't got it right so far!
ANON - Aaaah, now I agree with you that we ain't got it right so far. I am so happy you are a NewfoundlanderLabradorian and always will be. It does not make me feel so nauseous having to deal with you. I want my fellow NewfoundlandersLabradorians to be angry with what has happened here. Now my fellow colleague and poster, let us work together to get the message out to the rest of Canadians that we weren't treated right, that we aren't treated right and that we won't be treated right in Canada until we start that Revolution. I hope it will not have to escalate beyond a Revolution of Words and that Ottawa and the rest of Canada will come to their senses. We do not want Canadian taxes to work for us, instead we want our resources which amounts to much more in monetary value than taxes. (The only reason Ottawa sent us Canadian Tax Money in the first place to survive, was because so many places in Canada were exisiting because of the largesse of NewfoundlandLabrador natural and human. Of course, that created taxes so that some could be sent here.)That is the only way we will get ahead if we are the primary beneficiary of our resources and we develop and use these resources to create industries here. If we say those resources will stay here in Newfoundland and Labrador and they will attract business here in NL, instead of being sent of to the rest of Canada to create industry. We all know that industries need resources and energy to operate and we have both. If we do not send it off to Quebec, Ontario and Manitoba where big industry is located, well then those industries will die from lack of raw material and energy, so they will have to migrate where these two commodites are to survive. Let us say not one ounze of Ore will leave NL for refining, not one barrel of Oil will leave NL for refining, not one pound of Fish will leave for processing, and not one kilowatt of Hydroelectricity will leave this province for transmission to another market hungry for energy to fuel industry. We will do all the secondary processing and further processing here ourselves and we will help our brethern in other parts of Canada not by sending off our raw materials but by sending revenue through taxes after we develop our strong economy from our recourses. Thanks ANON for your second last post which made me damn angry , and inspiring me to write this post.
ReplyDeleteYou people are always angry, so what else is new!
ReplyDeleteDanny boy has a temper tantrum every second day it seems.
By the way, your natural resources are worthless unless they are utilized, and corporations are not going to play your game. corporations exist to make a profit for their shareholders. Do you think that you deserve special attention? I have been following your fishery woes with interest. Companies have to compete in a global market and the only way to do so is to utilize any advantage possible. Seems that you newfies believe that you should have the fish processors kiss your butt and do as you say no matter what the cost. Corporations see the way you people treat companies such as FPI with disdain and realize that your province is not a good place to do business. You silly people seem to think that jobs must be created for you at any cost, just one catch though say you, that catch is that the jobs can't be full time, no way to draw down pogey with a full time job!
Your Premier goes around having hissy fits with anyone who dares to disagree with him. By the way, it seems that Danny aint going to get his way with big oil. Fallow field legislation will be no more than a wet dream for him it seems.
Looks like any newfies wishing a better life will have to move west.
find it quite nauseating when loud mouthed know nuttins tell us off for demanding our fair share...tell us to shut up and be happy with what they give us, shut up and go back to sleep...
ReplyDeleteon the one hand we are criticized for not taking initiative , not taking control of our fate, but then the momnent we move in that direction the choir of arseholes tells us to sit down and shut up.
IF NL is such a drain on Canada, why the hell are we here? We were not taken into the federation as a charity case. We have a value to the feds, they want something from us...its time we realise our true value and make them work for it.
BTW,...the 'no-it-all' arseholes don't seem to realise that its the east coast fishery that's been used to sweeten the pot to improve foreign exports of goods produced in central canada...
Take Off EH!!!!
Anon you who wrote this...."You people are always angry, so what else is new"! FROM READING YOUR POSTS HERE YOU APPEAR TO HAVE TWO PERSONALITIES TO YOUR WRITINGS. YOU ARE A VERY DIFFICULT PERSON TO FIGURE OUT.
ReplyDeleteYou said QUOTE "our natural resources are worthless unless they are utilized, and corporations are not going to play our game. Corporations exist to make a profit for their shareholders". UNQUOTE
HOW THEN WILL NL BENEFIT AND PROFIT IF WE PASS EVERYTHING OVER TO OTTAWA AND BIG BUSINESS. THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING FOR 57 YEARS. HOW WILL WE BE ABLE TO GET OFF THE DOLE? WHAT YOU ARE ADVOCATING IS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING, SO THINGS WON'T CHANGE, NL WILL ALWAYS APPEAR TO BE A DRAIN ON THE TAX POT OF OTTAWA, OF COURSE, THAT WILL BE THE WAY IT IS PERCEIVED. WHEN WE GIVE ALL OUR RESOURCES AWAY THE WAY WE HAVE BEEN DOING, THE MONEY THAT COMES TO NL IS WELL EARNED AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED, BUT IT DOESN'T SHOW UP ON THE LEDGER SHEET THAT WAY. THAT IS UNFORTUNATE FOR NEWFOUNDLANDLABRADOR, since it makes us look like we are leeches. Ottawa and big industries are the leeches in the case of NL's resources.
Yes, and I believe you said earlier that you are a Newfoundlander and will always be. Will if NewfoundlandLabrador keep giving its resources away completely to Corporations to be the beneficiary, as you are advocating, and as NL always have done, well then there will be no NL, because there will be no money coming from those resources to keep NL going. Ottawa will never send us enough money to survive the way we should. The resources that go out of here should be accounted for. Every Canadian needs to know what the province of NL has contributed and how we have suffered because of the way our resources were dispensed. We have to be good stewards of our resources ourselves. If we keep giving Ottawa and Big Industry all the latitude, which we have done over the past 57 years, there will NEVER be one ounce of benefit into it for NL. Let me repeat - The method you are proposing is the way we have done it for the past 57 years, IT DOES NOT WORK. WE have to do things differently, much differently, than we have in the past. In the past everything was just passed over to both Ottawa, in some cases the other provinces, and always big industry were the beneficiaries. They had all the manoeuvrability, NL had absolutely none.
As a result of handling our resources in the way we did, we are a HAVE NOT province, which we never should have been. So let me repeat,ANON what you are preaching for BIG INDUSTRY is what we have done all along and Please Tell Me Where Did It Get Us? It appears to me in YOUR last post you actually DO NOT Know what you are speaking about.
Anon - You also said that Corporation exist to make a profit for their shareholders. True Indeed. But in NewfoundlandLabrador, in the past there were NO OBSTRUCTIONS Placed in their way of big business at all to obtain that, matter of fact, right to this present moment Corporations, not NewfoundlandLabrador are benefiting from NL's resources. What we have to do if you want NL to make it on our own, without taxes and without handouts from anyone, is WE HAVE TO BE THE PRIMARY BENEFICIARY OF OUR RESOURCES, Not Quebec, Not Ontario, Not Ottawa, Not Manitoba, Not Nova Scotia, Not Ottawa. We Have to take over that role and work directly with BIG INDUSTRY OURSELVES.
Sorry for some of the repetition, but to get my points across I deliberately repeated everything, hopefully you will get the drift and hopefully Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and their politicians WILL GROW A SPINE and will do what is right for this beautiful province once in their lives.
I will post this again because it seems either our anon poster didn't read it or chose to ignore my previous comment in another thread.
ReplyDeleteAnd lo, Newfoundlanders and Labradorians led all the rest
Cross Examination by Averill Baker
The Charter
The last line in the poem Abou Ben Adam reads, “And Lo Ben Adam’s name led all the rest.” Amen.
Figures were released three weeks ago identifying the provinces that contribute the most to the Canadian economy in exports to foreign countries and lo Newfoundlanders and Labradorians led all the rest – again. But, this time, it’s in spades, as the gamblers say, with the one-eyed-jack-of-diamonds-and-the-devil-close-behind way.
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians now contribute more to the Canadian economy per capita than any other Canadians to such a remarkable degree that it makes one feel sympathy toward Canadians from other provinces.
Other Canadians who look at these recent figures must feel embarrassed that Newfoundlanders are, in economic terms, contributing so much more than they are to the Canadian economy.
Canadians in Ontario and Alberta must feel like they’re on unemployment insurance with Newfoundlanders paying the bill. Quebecers and Maritimers must feel they are on welfare with Newfoundlanders paying the bill.
In economic terms each Newfoundlander is now worth four Canadians from other provinces.
It’s becoming embarrassing.
And what is just as embarrassing is that historically, since 1949, this province, on average, on a per capita basis, has led all other Canadians in contributions to the Canadian economy.
Of course, the billion dollars of power that we export indirectly to the United States shows up as Quebec’s power on the official figures. That’s one billion dollars of exports that must be taken from the Quebec column and counted as coming from this province.
Oh yeah, says the economist, we lead every other province on a per person basis with just over a half a million people - of course Newfoundlanders and Labradorians lead the rest of Canada. Also we have always exported practically everything we produce - wood, pulp and paper, minerals, fish, and now oil. That is why we have always contributed more to the Canadian economy than any other Canadians on a per capita basis.
And that is why some people sometimes suggest that we would have been better off had we not joined Canada or if we were today to separate from Canada. On the economic yardstick this province is in a far better position to separate and print its own money – just like we did prior to joining Canada.
The Export Development Corporation in releasing its figures last month claimed that this province is now exporting about $4 billion of crude oil to the United States. It points out that Statistics Canada figures, used by the provincial government, are incorrect.
Those incorrect figures, used by provincial governments and Ottawa, show that most of our exports of crude oil are going to other Canadian provinces for refining. The Export Development Corporation claims in their end of July report that in fact most of our crude is being shipped to the United States for refining and not to Canadian refineries. I believe the Export Development Corporation.
Together with the power through Quebec, these adjustments are necessary to get to the truth about our exports to foreign nations.
Some of our offshore crude and all of Voisey’s Bay nickel are shipped within Canada for processing and cannot be counted in values of exports. Voisey’s Bay nickel and Duck Pond copper and zinc, and iron ore, will lead exports of minerals next year. Where is Duck Pond you might ask? It’s around Trout Pond, which is next to a smaller pond called Goose Pond.
The Newfoundland separatist makes a valid point in saying that if we were not a part of Canada all of our exports would be to foreign nations.
Then look at the fantastic economic position we would be in.
Maybe Major Peter Cashin and Malcolm Hollett were right in 1948.
The only thing missing today is the quality of politician we had years ago - from the records of the National Convention and Hansard, quality politicians like Peter Cashin, Malcolm Hollett, Gordon Bradley, Joey Smallwood, James Chaulker, Dr. Jim McGrath, Dr. Fred Rowe, Bill Rowe, Charlie Ballam, C. Max Lane, Ed Roberts, John Crosbie, James McGrath, Clyde Wells, Nathaniel Noel, Bill Marshall, Dr. Noel Murphy, Ambrose Peddle, Jack Pickersgill, Dr. Frecker, Tom Hickey, John Lundrigan, Jim Morgan etc. etc.
Yes, today we do have some outstanding politicians, like Danny Williams, but they are like hen’s teeth – they’re hard to find.
Patriot I was really disappointed this morning when I heard the Mayor of a Labrador City say that the two airports in Labrador, pay three times (3x) the Landing Fees to Transport Canada as do the two airports in Quebec. These airports are just a couple hundred kilometers apart. Yet these few kilometers make the airfare in Labrador hundred of dollars more expensive. It is so unfair to Labrador.
ReplyDeleteNow that is a pure example of how we are treated so differently here in NewfoundlandLabrador by Ottawa than Quebec.
Is it because we have no lobbyists lobbying those prices down? I would like to know the answer to that question. Lobbyists shouldn't be in our system at all, but they are and Newfoundland and Labrador need to have a few working on our behalf to secure a better deal for us.
Now that is a pure example of how we are treated so differently here in NewfoundlandLabrador by Ottawa than Quebec.
ReplyDeleteInteresting...
Mile per mile, Labrador residents pay more to board a provincially-run ferry than their fellow-provincialists on the South Coast of Newfoundland, Bell Island, Change Islands, etc.
Newfoundland nationalists, where is your rage?
"It's high time that Labradorians, instead of feeling like someone else's treasure trove, started feeling like an integral part of our province.
We cannot expect fair treatment from Ottawa if we don't practise what we preach."
- Danny Williams, April 7, 2001
WJM - I agree with you 100 per cent that there should be a uniform rate mile per mile for all provincially-run ferry services in Newfoundland and Labrador. There should absolutely be no difference. If it exists it must stop and the people affected must have their voices heard.
ReplyDeleteBut WJM isn't it unfair for Transport Canada to charge an airport landing fee of three times (3xs) that of airport landings on the Quebec side of the border? Therefore the rates to fly out of Goose Bay, Wabush and Churchill Falls have to be inflated greatly to absorb the exorbitant landing fees. Transport Canada should have a uniform rate as well. We here in NewfoundlandLabrador should not be discriminated against and our voices again must be heard. Residents of Goose Bay, Labrador City, Wabush, Churchill Falls, etc. get on the Open Line shows and show your disgust.
Everyone knows that the people who get on Open Line and BackTalk are one card short of a full deck.
ReplyDeleteRandy Simms is okay but Bill Rowe is the biggest brown-noser to Williams I have ever heard.
Your radio call in shows are a constant source of entertainment to people in other places.
And yes, Canada does laugh.
VOCM: Voice of the Common Moron
ReplyDeleteSuch pathetic public open line shows.
Never mind the Newfie accents (there are different accents everywhere) just listen to how the callers butcher the English grammar.
We here in NewfoundlandLabrador
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of brown-nosing Danny! "NewfoundlandLabrador". Ugh. What a pile of garbage that "brand" is.
should not be discriminated against and our voices again must be heard. Residents of Goose Bay, Labrador City, Wabush, Churchill Falls, etc. get on the Open Line shows and show your disgust.
Ah yes, the Open Line shows...
Why not call Lawrence Cannon, the federal Minister of Transport, instead? He has jurisdiction. Bill Rowe doesn't.
If it exists it must stop and the people affected must have their voices heard.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you doubt that it exists?
However pathetic, it is quite obvious that you are a listener to the Open Line Shows as you have discerned the difference in accents, and I do think I did hear you at one time, at least once,talking to Bill Rowe on his show. I am going by the name that is associated with your call letters WJM. The person who called Bill Rowe identified himself with the name that has been associtated with your call letters WJM on postings to this blog.
ReplyDeleteHowever, no matter what the accent or grammar you discern on the Open Line shows, at least the peoples' voices are heard. If you can understand what they are saying, that is all that is required. I hope both levels of government hear what people are saying, as well, and that they do something about what is being said.
Oh by the way WJM, if you don't like the accents and grammar of the people, please do not tune in to the shows, you do not have to suject your delicate ears to what the people have to say with their not so grandiose accents. I don't suppose anybody forces the show upon you.
You don't mind WJM Ottawa getting equity in our Oil and having control of the Fish Resource. It is also obvious you don't have any qualms about Quebec being the primary beneficiary of the Hydroelectricity, Sudbury, Ontario having the Nickel so that it can live another 15 years and also Thompson, Manitoba having the Nicel so that it can also live another 15 years.
Quebec, Ontario, nor Manitoba aren't responsible for one cent of upkeep of infrastructure to Labrador or Newfoundland. The NewfoundlandLabrador government is responsible, of course, we get money from Ottawa as well, but just look at the difference of monies going into the other provinces, and Ottawa gets very little in return. Does the province of Newfoundland and Labrador get to be the primary beneficiary of any resource out of Quebec, Ontario or Manitoba? Please answer that one for me.
Oh by the way WJM, if you don't like the accents and grammar of the people, please do not tune in to the shows, you do not have to suject your delicate ears to what the people have to say with their not so grandiose accents.
ReplyDeleteWhere did I say that?
Myles, you really, really, REALLY may wish to delete this libellous posting.