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Tuesday, September 20, 2005

The Revolution Starts Here: Make the Pink, White and Green Our Official Flag

Today I'd like to call your attention to a web site that I recently learned of. I don't usually do this, but this particular site peaked my interest and hopefully it will do the same for you.

The site is dedicated to one and only one thing. Having the Pink, White and Green instated as the official provincial flag. In the words of the site's creator:

Everywhere you look there are those familiar colours, pink, white, and green. Flags, tee shirts, undergarments! What has happened to make the old colours of Newfoundland & Labrador to become so popular?

It's a combination of many things really; meaning, history, rebellion, and our future. The Pink, White, and Green are colours that were picked out by the true Newfoundlander. They were not arbitrarily selected by some bureaucrat. They have a history that cannot be replicated by assigning meanings to colours and shapes. This flag has been part of our culture for over 100 years and it shouts louder than any flag that can be simply given to us. It has been a sign of peaceful religion and independent rebellion. It is the sign of a new Newfoundland & Labrador, proud and strong, able and willing, determined and ambitious. It is a flag that has made a home in the hearts of many Newfoundlanders and it deserves a home flying over our province.

This is a call to show the world how we really feel about the Pink, White, and Green.


I'm not sure how many of our readers in the big land of Labrador will feel about this, since they too have a flag many of them cherish, but never the less, for those on the island, and I'm sure, some in Labrador, the Pink, White and Green means much more than the current collage of colors foisted on us by a former provincial government.

So, why don't you follow the link from my NL SPECIFIC LINKS section to visit this wonderful site. Take a look around, and above all, sign the petition you find there.

22 comments:

Brian Williams said...

Below are just some of the reasons the pink white n green whould not be an easy sell in Labrador.
I borrowed them from another site, feeling lazy today.

In the past eleven years, cumulative mineral exploration expenditures in Labrador have outstripped those in Newfoundland, $364-million to $143-million; and annually, in all but three of those years. Labrador has the province's three most important producing mines: Wabush, IOC, and as of last week, Voisey's Bay; Labrador is also home to two of the most important quarries, the dimension stone operations on the North Coast.

Why then, is there not one Labrador representative on Ed Byrne's new advisory council?

There are three members from that famous mining town, St. Johns: Brian Dalton, Chris Verbiski, and Joe Shirley. Two from Baie Verte, not unreasonably, Allan Cramm and Roy Barker. Victor French of Bay Roberts and Larry Pilgrim of King's Point round out the Committee.

But no one from Labrador? That's an impressive accomplishment, even by Danny Williams' government's standards.


"Minister Byrne said in selecting the members he ensured that various sectors of the mineral industry were represented as well considering geographical representation."
Danny Williams, newly-minted leader of the Progressive Conservative Party of Newfoundland and Newfoundland, said, in his inaugural speech (since consigned to the bit-bucket by the PC Party webmaster) on April 7, 2001:


"It's high time that Labradorians, instead of feeling like someone else's treasure trove, started feeling like an integral part of our province. We cannot expect fair treatment from Ottawa if we don't practise what we preach."
In Danny's 2003 election platform, he pledges:

"For far too long, the people, resources and potential of Labrador have been ignored and excluded from decision-making processes of the Province. We can no longer tolerate this atmosphere of exclusion, and we must recognize that Labrador will play a pivotal role in the future success of this Province."


"High time", "far too long", indeed.

Patriot said...

Good points all Brian, as a matter of fact, I am currently working on a commentary related to the lack of integration with Labrador, even at the risk of having WJM tear every word apart.

Never the less, I don't really see a connection between provincial government abuse of Lab and the P,W and G.

The flag is something held close in the hearts of the people, not necessarily the government. If it was, there would be no need to petition them for the change.

Even though some people say that everyone on the island is trying to keep Lab down, I don't believe this and I don't think any clear thinking individuals in Lab do either. Government is government, people are people.

In my opinion, the P,W and G is a symbol for the people, not an endorsement of any government.

Brian Williams said...

Not having been born in this part of the world I’m not up on the flag issue that well. Personally I think it can be like religion, divisive. I spent some time in The Republic of Ireland, worked on construction sites, religion and flags did lot’s of harm over there over the years.
On the Newfoundland and Labrador thingy, my wife has nothing but good to say about some Island people she met and worked with over the years. Sadly, she also has nothing but sad memories from some encounters with other Island people. Just proves that there are [expletives] everywhere. Flags could be a problem I think, you have the provincial one, there is the Labrador flag, and the pending Nunatsiavut Government has its own. Innu Nation has its own, Mete have one. I can only speculate if there are others on the Island. So saying that the PWG is of the people, so too are the ones I mentioned in Labrador, there in lay the problem. Better to find ways to avoid chasms than create them I would think.

NL-ExPatriate said...

In response to Brian's rant about Labradors representation on Ed Byrne's New Advisory Council.

I'll tell you the same thing I told WJM over on his Mon Labradore blog(je me souvien).

Instead of whining about who is on there why not propose someone with the credentials to be on their!
I'm sure there has to be lots of Mining experts or consultants in Labrador. As per your informative info about mining in Lab.
Really doesn't do much good to preach to the converted. If you read the posts here or on my blog or Liams you will see that we all think Labrador is getting and has gotten a raw deal over the years IMHO more from the feds than from the Province. Can't get blood from a turnip.
Danny has said and is trying with the TLH to put Labradors interests more to the front on the national scene IMHO.

He's not a magician nor are Islanders all powerful or knowledgeable. We like you need each others help and insight to further our combined cause.

Give me a name I will email everyone I think of to get a labradorian on the council. Including the media.
Sadly I'm probably blocked! The new form of censorship BLOCKERSHIP. I'm just guessing because I never get any responses so what am I supposed to think? Doesn't stop me though.

The majority has a resposibility to protect the rights and intersts of the minority and not just their own!

WJM said...

Danny has said and is trying with the TLH to put Labradors interests more to the front on the national scene IMHO.

Of course Danny's trying to get the TLH "more to the front on the national scene".

That way he doesn't have to pay for it, either. Just like he avoids spending money on public works in Labrador. Just like every premier who came before him.

The TLH so far has been 90% paid for by the federal government. When is the PROVINCE going to kick in its fair share of a highway in the PROVINCE?

MrChills said...

The TLH so far has been 90% paid for by the federal government. When is the PROVINCE going to kick in its fair share of a highway in the PROVINCE?

:0

If that number is correct, it is a very unbalanced parternship. What is the normal share on majority of projects within the Island?

NL-ExPatriate said...

Damit WJM why do you care where the money comes from?

If maps weren't so grossly misleading people would see and know that getting to NL from central canada is just as short if not a shorter distance than going through the Maritimes.
Most maps have NL placed up around the Yukon? When in reality 66% of the island portion is below the 49th parallel and should sit below most of Canada on maps.
This is because true north isn't at the top center of the map but rather about 1/4 way from the left hand side causing a distorted placement of NL.

You really are a federalist arent you WJM because anybody in their right mind with Labradors interests at heart would want the TLH to be apart of the TCH. Even Quebec should want the TCH to go through their province to boister pass through tourism. It is only with an upgraded TCH on both sides of the Strait Jacket of Belle Isle that Labrador and Newfoundland will prosper.

Geez they built a toll highway here in NB and then voted in Lord on the promise to untoll it. He did this in part with federal monies.

WJM said...

Damit WJM why do you care where the money comes from?

Because Labrador is considered part of the province when it's time to pay provincial taxes and mineral royalties; it should damn well be considered part of the province on budget day, too.

If maps weren't so grossly misleading

The "grossly misleading" maps are published in Newfoundland by Newfoundlanders; do something about it. Write to the provincial government and tell them to stop printing maps that lie and do not show the entire province of Newfoundland and Labrador at one common scale, with Labrador in its true position. Any company you see that does the same thing, write to them and complain.

people would see and know that getting to NL from central canada is just as short if not a shorter distance than going through the Maritimes.

Do you mean getting to Newfoundland, via Labrador?

Well, that's true only if the 138 is built. The route via Labrador City and Goose Bay will be longer than the Maritimes route and the 138 route. Actually, the 138 route would be slightly longer to drive, but shorter in time due to the shorter ferry crossing.

Most maps have NL placed up around the Yukon?

Please point out one map that has that! Dare you.

When in reality 66% of the island portion is below the 49th parallel and should sit below most of Canada on maps.

Why should it sit "below"?

"Up" and "north" are two separate things. If you use a Mercator-type projection, which would keep Newfoundland "down", you also lose scale: Newfoundland would then look too small, because northern areas would be exaggerated in their size.

This isn't a map problem; this is a problem of map-illiteracy.

This is because true north isn't at the top center of the map but rather about 1/4 way from the left hand side

North is a direction, not a point.

You really are a federalist arent you WJM because anybody in their right mind with Labradors interests at heart would want the TLH to be apart of the TCH.

When did I say I wanted the TLH to be part (apart?) of the TCH? (What do you mean by the word "apart"? Your wording is confusing here.)

Even Quebec should want the TCH to go through their province to boister pass through tourism.

Quebec has to start by "wanting" the 138 to be completed, by filling in the gap between Natashquan and Old Fort, and by "wanting" the 389 to Fermont to be brought up to standards north of Manic-5.

It is only with an upgraded TCH on both sides of the Strait Jacket of Belle Isle that Labrador and Newfoundland will prosper.

The highway can be upgraded without being called "TCH". What Labrador needs is commitments from the provincial government that Labrador is part of.

Why does the provincial government spend provincial highways money in the Newfoundland part of the province, but not in Labrador?

Isn't Labrador part of the province?

NL-ExPatriate said...

Once again your preaching to the converted. I along with many others around these blogs feel Labrador should get more funding and representation. But the fact remains that the government of NL doesn't have the monetary means to do it all. Now Canada Ottawa has surpluses 1.5 billion as of today even after their recent election campaign spending spree, of our "your" resource revenue taxes and income taxes, they would rather spend to protect their legacy and egos than buy our measley 7 seats.

As for me emailing to try and affect change do you want me to add you to my email campaign? Just about all of my blogs have been sent to both levels of government opposition included as well as media outlets to ensure accountability.

Not to mention all of the other agencies and organizations I've email to try and gain support for Labrador and Newfoundland. IE Spanish, Portugese, and Russian government to stop fishing nose and tail. WWF, Sierra club just to name a few. I've also done extensive research for the Gander weather station. I even started three petitions to stop the closing of the ACCCRC, DFO's toxic research program, PSC closing.
Can you say the same? Or are you to busy sitting on the side lines sniping about poor old Labrador?
Its this divisive leanings that has us where we are. Put your petty local politics aside and join with us in uniting N-L towards a better future. Whether that be in Canada or on our own either as NL or as N L. No matte what the outcome you can be assured Newfoundland and Labrador will still hold ties and be friends and good neighbors.

A for the map issue Yes I am doing something. I am at present talking to Rand Mc Nally about their misrepresentation of NL on their maps.
No the maps arent published in NFLD they are everywhere Atlas's, Schools, Weather forecasts etc.
Yes true north is always at the top and not just the top but more to the point top dead centre. Which is the error I pointed out Look again at where the northings intersect.

WJM said...

But the fact remains that the government of NL doesn't have the monetary means to do it all.

They have the means to do much more than they have so far, esp. given how much they get out of Labrador.


Or are you to busy sitting on the side lines sniping about poor old Labrador?

Aren't you sniping about "poor old Newfoundland"?

Put your petty local politics aside and join with us in uniting N-L towards a better future.

I'm trying to unite NL! What divides NL is the cheapskate tendencies of the government in St. John's to collect Labrador's taxes and resource royalties, but demand funding from Ottawa to pay for things in Labrador which are under provincial responsibility.

THAT'S what divides NL.

A for the map issue Yes I am doing something. I am at present talking to Rand Mc Nally about their misrepresentation of NL on their maps.

How is NL misrepresented on their maps?

No the maps arent published in NFLD

The maps which reduce the true relative scale of Labrador, and shunt Labrador off into an inset instead of having the whole province at a common scale, YES, those are produced in Newfoundland.

What are you doing to stamp out this practice?

Yes true north is always at the top and not just the top but more to the point top dead centre.

True north is a DIRECTION, not a point. There are some map projections in which the lines of longitude do not run parallel. There's nothing the matter with that; it is not a "misrepresentation".

Which is the error I pointed out Look again at where the northings intersect.

On which map?

WJM said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
NL-ExPatriate said...

How old are you? geez I feel like I'm trying to explain something to a ten year old?

Gordon said...

Personally, I'd love to see the "Pink, White & Green" (although I think we should be calling it the "Green, White and Pink), however, I am not sure if the time is right.

The article posted on this web site proposed changing the flag, but it ended up as a debate between a person or on the island and someone else on the mainland part of the province. As I suggested before on this web site, I think we have to change how we govern ourselves first before we debate bigger issues such as our place in Canada (or, indeed, our place outside Canada) and even the relatively smaller issues just as what flag we want to use.

The truth is, we are a divided province, rather than a monolith. Urban and rural Newfoundland and Labrador have different needs, as does the island portion and the mainland portion. I proposed this before and I take this opportunity to propose it again. We need reform in the way we govern ourselves. But how?

Our current unicameral system leaves a lot to be desired. It is too St. John's-focused (by the way, I am a Townie - my family has been in the city since the late 1800's). We have to balance this. One way to do this would be to have an upper house, like a senate or House of Lords. Unlike what they have in Ottawa, we should have an elected upper house, such as what they have got in the USA and Australia. Even the UK now has a few elected Lords! The point of an upper house is to represent regions rather than pockets of populations. In Newfoundland and Labrador, just a few upper house members would be sufficient - perhaps five or six. On top of that, we should have an elected lieutenant governor. What we have now, i.e., an unelected hack who represents the Queen of England, is absurd. Let's progress!

There is a lot we can do to make Newfoundland and Labrador a better place. My suggestions, I believe, can help. Of course, there are other developments which would help. By the way, as for separatism, I don't think we can really do it without Labrador. In any case, we really have to unify a lot better than we have so far in order to move ahead. Divide and conquer has always been a winning strategy. Let's not be divided.

Brian Williams said...

nl-expat said:
response to Brian's rant about Labradors representation on Ed Byrne's New Advisory Council.


Actually I was not ranting, I was giving one example as to the inequities that Labrador receives from the Government of NL.
From long time lobby efforts to improve the infrastructure in our community, it has become very evident that if I did have any number of names to give to the Minister these suggestions would be ignored. Trust me, I know they would.


nl-expat said:
Instead of whining about who is on there why not propose someone with the credentials to be on their!
I'm sure there has to be lots of Mining experts or consultants in Labrador. As per your informative info about mining in Lab.


Also gained from my long term [at my own expense and time] lobby efforts I have learnt that for too many, who just happen to be from the Island portion of the province, there is this attitude that if Newfoundlanders say it, it is fighting for justice. If Labradoreans say it we are whining or ranting. Does that ring a bell vis a vis NL and the mainland.

Gordon’s post has got it about right. But cooperation has to be give and take does it not? It’s not cooperation if the majority over rules the minority, that is just status quo.

If people new the true figures as to Federal and Provincial funding going into Labrador then cooler heads may prevail.

Anonymous said...

Keep in mind, for some, the Pink, White and Green stirs painful memories of some very desperate times gone by. Most of these folks are the elderly, of which you will not find here on this blog.

Gordon said...

I do not understand you, Anonymous. Could you please clarify your statement?

NL-ExPatriate said...

I respect your comments Brian you seem to have a cool head on your shoulders. But to say

"Actually I was not ranting, I was giving one example as to the inequities that Labrador receives from the Government of NL.
From long time lobby efforts to improve the infrastructure in our community, it has become very evident that if I did have any number of names to give to the Minister these suggestions would be ignored. Trust me, I know they would."

your giving up. Are you a quitter? I don't think so. Governments change all the time, that is to say the people we put in there. Whos to say this government won't respect your suggestions whereas the last one didn't? Or the CC sent to media outlets won't run your suggestions and shame the government to right an injustice. If not right away at least in the long term.

The only reason I called your post a rant is because IMHO if you fail to propose at least an inkling of a solution your just ranting.
Haven't you ever heard the saying "If you don't have anything good to say say nothing at all."

I'm of the firm belief that neither Newfoundland nor Labrador will ever prosper unless Newfoundland realizes the value of Labrador and puts more emphasis on its development. No not just reaping revenues fron resources either. Which by the way is miniscule compared to what Ottawa receives.

It is this feeling of futility brought on by individual efforts that stops many if not all from trying to affect change. I know I'm having the same feelings and misgivings about my individual efforts.

The problem I have is choosing a battle to fight. There are so many.

That and how to organize so that our combined efforts feed each other and has a more profound effect.

I've thought about this and written about it on my blog Options I think it was.

My conclusion is that a data base is needed to contact and inform like minded individuals when, where and to who to send form letters as a start to.
How can this be done?
Well there is the web site option. But it still requires creating a data base of emails to contact like minded individuals.
http://www.fairdealfornewfoundland.com/

Share email addresses, security issues

Petitions, require to much time and effort , to promote each individual topic.

Mailing list Voluntary and self serve signup. No security issues because addresses are kept at arms length.

Mailing lists would be my choice. I'm at this present time investigating if there are any already, if not where would be a good place to initiate one.

With a mailing list what happens is you sign up with your email address and you can either mail to all of it's members or you can propose drafts to be screened by founding members and mailed to all of the members.
Drafts like letters to members of parliament and PM or premier.

The beauty is that the draft with comments and options are already investigated and formulated for mass forwarding to the included appropriate recipients.
This is what all of the major advocacy groups use IE: Sea shepard, Make poverty history etc.

You also don't need continual ongoing renewed permission to use the members email addy's and names as in some of the different campaigns. This is the draw back with what fairdealforNewfoundland did. It is a one time topic shot, for the most part. But in reality once you have the data base you could send any new topics to the members data base and rely on them to forward the issue if they want, realizing they only signed up with the one topic in mind. Really the same as mailing lists with the exception there is no specific topic more like a general ideology.

If a generic web page topic or title was chosen this would be less of an issue but still an issue.

Here is a NL mailing list server I found but it doesn't seem to be working?
http://www.nftoday.com/nfmail/
It actually is called Newfoundland and not Newfoundland and Labrador which is strike one IMHO. But it does look good other than that and the fact that it doesn't work.

If this one doesn't look any good there are lots of free mailing list servers out there.

To use an analogy Web site based mailing lists are like the main post here, where as Mailing lists are like the comments section here.

WJM said...

No not just reaping revenues fron resources either. Which by the way is miniscule compared to what Ottawa receives.

Forestry, minerals, and hydro-electricity, in provinces, are the exclusive domain of provincial governments. Under the constitution, and under the Terms of Union, only St. John's gets to collect resource revenues from resources in the province.

So, can you please find out, and post: how much does "Ottawa" get from provincial resources in the Labrador part of the province? The number will surprise you.

tom clancy said...

kay, do you have anything better to do than to berate every little thing someone says? you know who you are...get some original material, use your own mind, and try to be civil. I though we were all caring about the same thing---out home province. If ya'll have such a problem with the representation of NL on maps just get the Newfoundland Centred World map at the Memorial University Bookstore. It's done by the department of geography (new copyright 1993)and Newfoundland is smack in the centre, now we can all be happy and you can rant about something new. Sheesh.

NL-ExPatriate said...

Oh no you don't I'm not doing your homework for you. Just so your can contort it to your own designs.

I will point you in the right direction though.
http://www.exec.gov.nl.ca/royalcomm/
For starters.

WJM said...

I will point you in the right direction though.
http://www.exec.gov.nl.ca/royalcomm


This document says absolutely nothing about all those millions of dollars that Ottawa supposedly collects in resource royalties.

I ask you again: How much? And do you have a source for that "fact"?

I'll give you a hint: Except for some oil and gas royalties on some reserves in Alberta, the federal government does not collect ANY resource royalties in ANY province.

Can you point to the page in the Blame Canada Commission report which says otherwise?

Didn't think so.

Snuffy Jackson said...

Jeez...I never imagined when Dave Benson and myself created the first "Republic of Newfoundland" t-shirt back in 1983 that it would lead to such controversy. It did cause a bit of a stir back then too. A reporter from Associated Press came to investigate and write a story about us. I remember him asking in a very serious tone, "Do you guys have an army?" Of course we replied, "No, but we got abit of Navy", as we poured him a rum.
For the record, the reason I produced the "Republic of Newfoundland" t-shirt with the PWG flag was because I thought that Newfoundlanders would like to have an outward expression of what I (a cfa) had seen...a fearce independent glint in otherwise very kind eyes. It reminded me of my Texas roots. Oh yeah. I liked it.
As far as the talk about making it the official flag of Newfoundland I say no. Why? Because that would ruin the specialness of it. It would become official...the government would have it. Don't ya get boys? That's when it would lose its bite. It's my opinion that the PWG flys at full staff in the hearts of every Newfoundlander. I saw it.
No boys, leave it on the t-shirts and decals....don't give it away.
I still have one of the original t-shirts from 83'. It's tucked away, safe in a box. I pull it out from time to time and look at it. Somehow, it's smaller than it use to be, but it always gives me a hankering to pour a glass of rum and toast the spirit that can only be Newfoundland
all the best
Snuffy Jackson