Anti-Sealing Activists Help Support Web Talk NL
Well folks, I have to say it’s been an interesting weekend here at Web Talk. It looks like we have been the focus of a concerted effort by anti-sealing interests attempting to ensure that our most recent poll reflects their view of the world.
If you look at the poll results on the right you will notice that it shows 92% in favor of stopping the hunt. This is in direct opposition to the way the results looked prior to the weekend when the result stood at 98% against closing it.
Before our regular readers start shaking their heads in wonder at this result we need to break down how it was arrived at. When you consider our recent visitor stats for the site it becomes quite clear that we have another case where people outside Newfoundland and Labrador, in fact outside Canada itself, think they know better than we how things should be done.
The latest stats from the site show an increase in traffic over the weekend of about 400%.
Normally our visitors are split at about 50% new and 50% returning visitors. The current stats show new visitors at 94%.
92% of our visitors in the past few days are from outside NL. That number is usually at 69%. In fact, the stats show that it isn’t primarily other Canadians visiting either. Normally only 34% of our traffic is from outside the country. Our current numbers are running at 86% non-Canadian.
Of course anyone is more than welcome to visit us anytime and make their points known. I just find it odd that people so far removed from the seal hunt would think they know so much about it.
All I have to say to these people is
1) visit us anytime you like, if even 1 or 2% of you read an article on the site you may learn something about us other than the propaganda you usually hear; and
2) Thanks for increasing my traffic numbers so quickly. Every hit puts a few pennies in the bank and helps ensure the site remains in operation going forward. We appreciate your financial support in helping get the word out.
60 comments:
I was born and raised in the maritimes and have spent most of my life living in rural areas near the coast. I take exception to the suggestion that just because I do not live in Newfoundland/Labrador that I don't know anything about the seal hunt. I have researched the seal hunt in great depth by reading scientific journals written by ecologists and marine biologists. I have looked at the information on this subject published by DFO. I am also aware of the issues surrounding small communities who depend on seasonal/supplemental work. After having looked at all the angles and weighing all the evidence, I feel the seal hunt is not sustainable. It does not support First Nations people and it seems to contribute little to the local economy (since a large portion of the seal hunt is now carried out by large operations vs independant fishermen). That is why I visited this site to vote, not because some animal rights activists supposedly wanted to skew the results. Perhaps next time, you can specify that you do not want anyone outside the province to vote..that was definitely not clear.
I did enjoy the articles recently posted about the PM inserting his foot in his mouth and how the government itself is the problem. I agree whole-heartedly. I now have this site bookmarked.
To Anonymous:
My intention was not to slight you or anyone else who may have honestly looked at independent facts surrounding this issue and formed an opinion.
Rather it was to highlight those who have responded to the rheroric of people like Paul Watson.
Obviously someone from N.S. would at least have some information on the hunt, but it is also clear from the stats quoted that a 400% increase in traffic and a 92% "Stop the Hunt" result doesn't reflect the normal readership of this site.
As stated, anyone is welcome to vote, not just NLers, but the traffic and results were so far outside the norm that it had to be noted.
to anonymous from the Maratimes...Don't be so easily offended. I visited the poll mid last week, when there had only been 6 votes, 5 in favour of the hunt and 1 against. I am not surprised that it was hit at high volume over the weekend on the antihunting side...'they' like to skew information in anyway they can. I was skeptical of the poll in the first place as it would be too easy for anyone, pro- or con- to simply vote multiple times.
On your other points, its good to hear that you are researching the issues and have concerns on the sustainability factor. Most people's antihunting position seems to be based on personal Animal Rights beliefs that extend way beyond seals, and people who know only what they read on HSUS , SSCS, IFAW, etc websites. They present highly biased information desingned to lead the reader to their foregone conclusion?
keep on posting please. Informed and honest discussion is highl valuable.
I wonder why a little readership poll on some NL Blog site (all-be-it a very good one) attracts so much attention from people with no NL interest? It really serves no purpose to bombard the poll unless you wish to sway the results. We wonder where some of these statistics come from. They now have a new one "In a recent online poll 92% of respondants were in favour of stopping the seal hunt". Scientic methodology be damned - only the number is important.
Why the seal hunt? Most opponents will certainly acknowledge there are many issues in the world with regard to Animal Welfare. Some common responses are "...baby seals". First of all few realize that the white coat hunt no longer exists, but if this is the issue - what about Veal? Just try and take on the American Cattle industry. As KD Lang and Oprah will attest - this would be a fight that is far too expensive. Another argument is "cruel, barbaric...". It is never kind to have to kill an animal for food and resources. What about the Spanish Bull Fights - that's considered entertainment! So what if it could be proven absolutelty that seals were killed in the most humane way possible would you still protest? All of these questions should be asked by intelligent well-read protestors, then look at the use of animal products in your live. Evaluate then for yourself if your views are founded or hypocritical.
The answer to "Why the seal hunt?" is quite simply this. NL is a small quiet population off in the middle of no where. It is not heavily supported by its own national government. It is in the open for all to see (no slaughterhouse) and it is the poorer of the population who work in the industry.
The answer is simply this it is a terribly easy target...
the kfc we enoy is just 38 days old from the time it's hatched and slaughtered.the blood and assembly line is never seen by world wide audiences by the taste much enjoyed,
Hi Marie, Please fill in the blank for me here. I am really wondering what is the fundamental basis of your arguement:
"Don't you realize that in terms of opposition, the "masses" think it should stop regardless, they shouldn't be killed and skinned at all ... BECAUSE ______"
This is shortened from your full statement elsewhere. Here are some options 1. I am a vegan and belief animals are not for our consumption. 2. I feel the seals are killed in an inhumane manner 3. They are just little babies.
I'd really like to know where your moral centre is. When this is established I would also like to know what other causes you stand for in defense of Animal Welfare and which protests you involve yourself with within your own community.
Non of this is accusing. I am just curious when any references are made about Newfoundland and Labrador in any context and how others from Canada and elsewhere pick up on these issues as a global cause.
I once was a stalwart supporterr of the seal hunt. Not long ago actually.
But the more I read the less I am willing to blindly support the seal hunt as it now exists.
While I don't object to the killing methods as they now stand. I actually think they are one of the most humane ways in which WILD animals are killed.
I do disagree with the wastage of the carcass being left on the ice to rot! I've eaten seal and I found it to be very very tasty. I just wish it were more available. But I don't think that will ever happen until the Black and White protestors start to see in shades of grey.
I'm not intimately familiar with the seal hunt but just killing the young seals strikes me as a self defeating policy?
Why not do like every other wild game hunt kill a majority of the older male and let the female and young propogate the species for a larger and more sustainable hunt?
Unsure if seals are monogomous, or if you can tell the difference between male and female? Pretty sure there is a difference between young and old seals. Unsure if it is even feasible to hunt the older seals, let alone the older males primarily?
The problem as I see it with these protestors is there is no middle ground? They don't want to see a humane hunt or a sustainable hunt they just want to STOP THE KILLING OF THE POOR LITTLE BABY WHITE COATS!
And collect money!
By this single minded view point it just goes to show that they have no interest in making a more humane or sustainable seal hunt because that would end their fund raising and they know it!
Once again
Factory Slaughter House/Ship
Elect stun guns and chokers on tail to haul to slaughter ship.
Render all unused seal meat and parts for animal and fish food.
Seal Jerky?
I must apologise to Myles. It was I who emailed his article to all of the seal hunt protest groups I could find in hopes of having a civilized discussion to find a solution to this impass.
I didn't think they would use his poll as another means of promoting their one sided view at meddling in other peoples affairs for their own profit!
In response to Isdaby
"I was skeptical of the poll in the first place as it would be too easy for anyone, pro- or con- to simply vote multiple times."
Only one vote per IP address is allowed. Unless you have a dynamic Ip address and are willing to disconnect and reconnect you only get one vote per IP address?
As you can see by the number of hits your getting Myles this is a very contentious issue and one which generates alot of interest and fund raising possibilities for all the wrong reasons IMHO!
Thanks for answering Marie, it's nice to know who I am responding to when I defend my own opinion.
So "inhumane" - does this imply that a hunt that is determined to be as humane as possible would not get your protest?
"Unnecessary": if you knew that the hunt was necessary for the economic well-being of communities, that the products are used for food, clothing, medicinal ingredients, Omega 3 health products and other "necessities" or that population control of the species is "necessary" for the healthy populations of other ocean species... would you support it then?
"Shocking in this day and age", you are implying a more modern technologically advanced hunting and management?! What are your suggestions? If they were implemented would you support it then?
And as to your moral values I still have to go back to my other question. Why Newfoundland and Labrador? Why the seal hunt? Why does this occupy 100% of your time. There is nothing in your community, state, country that is at all worthy of even a few moments of your time?
Is the Seal Hunt protest part of your profession?
I apologize for replying to you specifically but non of the other "92% opposed" appear to be too vocal.
"If most of us rounded a corner on a highway and saw a slaughter like this, we would call the police, we would scream until our throats gave out, we would probably charge the men with clubs...".
that's the problem, its open air, on white snow, fluffy pups, etc. Not like the thousands of 'closed door' slaughterhouses and fur farms that attract only the attention of the hard core ARA's. Joe GEneral public don't give a damn about them...The seal hunt is a soft target...easy to raise money on.
Our Motivation is very simple. We have heard this attack on our culture for decades. We are prepared to argue facts but we are sick of hearing retoric. What is the motivation of a girl from Nebraska who refuses to see harm to animal welfare in her own state to the point of devoting all her time to fighting a cause elsewhere.
Let me ask you again. Is the seal hunt protest part of your profession? That will set the motives straight.
Brick by Brick?
Yep brick by brick we will all be dead and buried because of bird flu, brought on by animal factories.
While you capitalist protestors abuse the trust of the innocent and let the real inhumane practices carry on in your own back yard.
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=meet_your_meat
I do commend you Marie on continuing to discussing this highly contentious issue and trying to find a solution!
Unfortunately your solution you are SUPPORTING isn't realistic.
To Marie, re: 'dismissing the opinin of a 'best selling author... former first daughter, friend of Brian Mulroney..."
let me think...hmmmm...its just an O-P-I-N-I-O-N?! Can you tell my why I can not dismiss her 'opinion'?! can she prove her opinion?! you tell me. Best Sellign author? just how is that relevant...(I think you are easily impressed by 'credentials'). President Reagan? Come on!! ask the COlumbians what they think of him...adn Brian Mulroony doesn;t impress too many people out our way...IMHO!
I am not a sealer and do not profit in any way from the seal hunt. My education or lack thereof is irrelevant ... As for motivation, 'What he said" (pointing to BNB's post...).
Slaughterhouses are not a 'smoke screen', but a comparison. To the masses who are not devoted unquestioningly to AR doctrine, the fact that killing of seals is done in a manner comparable to that of cattle, pigs, etc in slaughterhouses, which most people accept...is called putting it into 'context'.
http://www.furcommission.com/news/newsC7.htm
this explains how most people in Newfoundland see the seal hunt protest...
Well folks, I can see this topic has sparked some lively debate. Good stuff.
By the way, you may be interested to know that our financial expose on Sea Shepherd did not go unnoticed outside the province. (if the hits on this site weren't evidence enough of that).
I have found reference to it on at least 5 other sites out of the U.S. including one run by a former professor and scientist who was once the target of activists and who now devotes his time to exposing their tactics.
http://brianoconnor.typepad.com/animal_crackers/2005/10/sea_shepherd_co.html
On his site, he has republished the entire article with the following review:
"... truly remarkable expose — a classic — one that ought to be a "must read" for anyone considering donating money to the SSCS"
Keep it up folks, it is by open discussion and debate that the truth will finally get out.
I recall in last season's storm of activity that there was a sealer on the ice who had a confrontation with a protester. The fact that there should be a boundary around the sealers to allow them to work and minimize confrontation does not seem to matter to Capt. Watson's Crew. Then there was a highly published video of poor old Dr. Vlasak in a shoving match with a sealer. It made for great video - just like the old days. People were enraged. Who provoked who was apparent. Innocent Dr. V just taking some photos, just an innocent tourist.
The Sea Shepherd Society was quick to rally support behind Dr. V. They published the photo, names and phone number of the sealer. He received harassing phone calls and threats. His family heard horrendous, brutal threats of voilence from unseen faces in distant lands. Only after the fact do we realize that this mode of attack is Jerry Vlasak's game. He provokes voilence for good video. He condones voilence. He is considered a terrorist in some countries and denied entry. He told a conference in 2003 that If a person is targeted for assassination, that kind of fear and intimidation is an effective tactic... Same guy on the video being shoved by a sealer. I wonder what happened there? Capt. W. eventually had to reluctantly resign Dr. V's seat and issue a statement (after quite a bit of time)
Two simple questions for Marie our Nebraska poster:
Do you condone the use of voilence like Jerry Vlasak?
Do you condone the publishing of that sealers name, photo and contact information?
Two simple yes or no questions.
I read the article you have posted, isdaby and I must admit you have a very good point. What I think you are forgetting is that ALL media is biased and is manipulated to reveal what the producer wants it to show. And yes, people, this includes our so- called unbiased, corporatly-run news media...People should not take what they see or read for granted, yes, you are very right, but people should also not dismiss all information presented just because there may be some exageration or discrepancies. Do lots of research and look at all the information available. Just because someone who was anti-sealing published some false footage, doesn't mean there is no issue with the hunt and that anyone who opposed the hunt can be dismissed. Why is that so easy to do? We have been shown over and over again (even from this blog site) that our government lies and cheats us yet when they tell us everything is ok, to trust them, we swallow it without question. Think critically and about all issues presented by anyone!
Did you ever think your poll would result in such vigorous debate, Miles? Good job! Debate is an art we North Americans have lost the ability to do. We are taught from childhood to just listen to our parents, our teachers, our media, our leaders and not think for ourselves. Thanks for inciting it.
To Anonymous:
Thanks for posting your comments and thanks for saying:
"Debate is an art we North Americans have lost the ability to do. We are taught from childhood to just listen to our parents, our teachers, our media, our leaders and not think for ourselves."
Truer words were never spoken. As a wiser man than me once said:
"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to my death your right to say it."
Regardless of your opinion, open and factual debate never hurt anyone.
I sure wish I could involve myself more in this particular one, but unfortunately its on to preparing the next article. I do recieve each of your comments via email and check them as time permits.
Thanks all. (even the ones I don't agree with)
to Anonymous, re: real issues with the seal hunt.
I agree that there are real issues, but we get caught up fighting the crapola coming from organisations such as SSCS...and others, which focus on 'misinformation' and emotionalisation (to the point of defying logic and fact...), yet there are real issues that can and should be discussed.
Sustainabilty- I for one am not too concerned about this, despite DFO's poor record managing cod and other fisheries...when Ottawa starts handing out sealing licences in exchange for breaks in the marketplace for central/western Canadian products be they canola or lampshades...then the seal herd is totally shagged. But until then, I am 'reasonably' comfortable with the knowledge that population surveys are being done, it is being managed, there has been large hunts for a long time without doing serious , long term damage...and again, its being monitored and managed...
Killing method: I am confident that properly done clubbing seals is as good as it gets. but there are questions about DFO's ability to monitor and regulate to ensure that as many sealers as possible follow the rules to reduce suffering...Daoust's reported 98% humane killing is pretty good but I don't see why we shouldn't aim for 100%. How do we deal with this?
What I can't abide by is ARA's who attack every angle and use every trick in the book, then when they are debated to a stand still they resort to their ideology an say 'well its just wrong anyway...'
Regards
A debate on the seal hunt, same shit, different pile…
I haven’t even bothered reading the comments, because I know that it is the same tired, worn out, relentless ignorance from the anti-sealers. With that said, the arguments from the pro-sealers are the same too.
Don’t get me wrong, I am on the informed side of this argument, but to be honest I am sick of hearing about it. I wish that both sides could keep their mouths shut for a while about it.
The average anti-sealer has about as much sense as a bag of rocks, strapping them all to a rocket and shooting them directly into the sun would be gods send to the world. Since I do not see this happening anytime soon, let’s pretend for a moment that they don’t exist. There are too many other things going on in Newfoundland at the moment that have far greater importance than the lives of a couple of measly swiles.
Mr. Chills has a point, to a degree...I too am sick of this debate, but you know what? with or without us its going to go on, and if we don't at least try to counter the 'non-sense' and balance the equation, we will be swept away.
The antisealing lobby is not just a hand full of wing nuts, they are highly motivated, well connected, well funded and widely dispersed. If you ignore them you do so at your peril...one thing for sure is that if we meet them with silence, they will only fill out the 'blank page' for us with their version of the 'truth'...the seal hunt is only one issue for 'them'(animal rights activists), but a lucrative one.
ARA's are and have been for a long time, attacking hte overall use of animals, be it food, leather, entertainment, hunting, biomedical research, etc. and they ain't going away!
Before I offend everyone reading this comment and who disagrees with the seal hunt, let me preface my next statement with the fact that I am using the word "Some", not "All".
Having said that, it is quite clear how out of touch with reality "some" of the anti-sealing lobby is. All you have to do is look at the most recent results of my latest poll. As things now stand, 60% of the respondents (obviously some of the less educated anti-sealers) believe that those involved in the hunt actually make more from it than the protest groups.
I don't think I need to quote precise figures to anyone who has been around this issue for any length of time, but if this point is questioned I'm sure some of our regular contributers can set the record straight.
"…obviously some of the less educated anti-sealers) believe that those involved in the hunt actually make more from it than the protest groups".
I know, I know, I know, I just posted earlier that people should move on with this nonsense, but that was before I had a couple of Coffees in me ;)
Anyway…
Having spent half my life in “Outport” Newfoundland, and actually being only a generation removed from a fisherman, I have seen first hand how many fishermen in the province live. Sure, there are people at a higher level making money on the fishery, but the guys actually doing the work are just barely making ends meet.
I was shocked to see the responses from the poll and see that so many people actually believe that the sealers are making more money than the protest groups in this racket. How can you even begin to debate with such a misinformed group?
Not sure if anyone out here has suggested this before or not, but do you think that any of the sealing protesters have read the Cassie Brown’s Death on the Ice? I am not saying that conditions are exactly the same today, but it does shed a little light on the sealing industry and that many Newfoundlanders are only a generation or two removed from that lifestyle if at all.
OK Marie I apologize, but it has nothing to do with blog/id etc. The e-mail was from me and it was by no means hostile. It was a posting to my own blog and since it referenced you I sent a copy. If you had hit reply I would gladly have answered your questions.
It worked out like this: A lot of the things you were saying had that old familiar twang of the Sea Shepherd Society. So I asked you a couple of times if you were at all involved with the Organization. You spoke something about Regan's daughter or something instead. So I googled "Huskers" and found that you were refering to Nebraska. Then MARIE, SEA SHEPHERD, and NEBRASKA. I found your e-mail as a point of contact in Nebraska for the Sea Shepherd Society.
My apologies to Myles in having his web service questioned. But it was you who exposed your identity. To be honest I wondered if the Marie in Nebraska was the same one, but from the above post that is confirmed also.
Now to the point of what you called a "very hostile e-mail". The full context is on my blog. I end the writing by suggesting that I would allow you to maintain your anonymity - that same humanity was not offered to a Newfoundland Sealer a few months ago when his phone number was posted on the Sea Shepherd website.
So you have forced my hand and you have revealed more about yourself then I ever intended. In defense of the "hostile e-mail" it is here: http://newfoundlandincanada.blogspot.com/2005/10/portrait-of-protestor.html . What did you consider hostile?
How can you possibly suggest that the people of NFLD and Labrador know better than anybody on anything?
Your people are the most uneducated, unhealthy, alcoholic, wife-beating, child molesting, unemployed, unskilled, useless, worthless and meaningless group of Canucks in all of Canada.
The fact that you all go around clubbing seals, carelessly making the rest of us look like the same, useless barbarians you are drives the rest of Canada - you know, the employed, educated part?- batt.
If Ottawa let you decide anything for yourselves, you'd all be dead in a week.
Which might not be such a bad idea
LOL Holy Smokes, who is this guy!Friggin' hilarious. Thanks Kujo I needed that. hahahaha We may ask you to help with some tourism stuff, this makes for great brochures. Can I quote you?
LOL
I'm going to copy this one as an arguement to secede. LMFAO.
Kujo is quoting standard Paul Watson rhetoric. Isn't there a law against hate speech or somethin?
Please don't delete Kujans post Patriot.
TO nl-expatriat,
I wouldn't dare delete it. We all need a good belly laugh every now and then.
If he/she had made similar racist comments about another culture I would delete it in a minute, but I'm sure most NLers like myself can see this for what it is and the value of the statement for our own cause.
Kujan's post is a good example of why many of us get involved in these forums. TO defend ourselves and 'try' to balance the equation, and even to set the record straight.
I think that most NEwfoundlanders posting re: seal hunt are not adamant supporters of a seal hunt, but would rather debate be centered on real issues, that can be debated with facts and possible scenarios discussed. That however rarely happens, as most times its either Animal Rights (you just shouldn't kill em period), or NEwfie bashing, like Kujan's post, that are dripping with hate, ignorance, and foregone conclusions (ie: that its 'inherently cruel' to club a seal), etc.
I for one could care less if the seal hunt never happened again, or if it continued forever...either way works for me. I do however object to the possibility of it being shut down, and our whole national character (ie: Newfoundland & Labrador) being unfairly being dragged in the dirt, over this kind of crap.
Its like 'here we go again b'ys...'.
'Lord, deliver us from hate-mongering, ignorant morons!!'
To Marie in Huskerland,
I am sorry you were so shaken by recieving a personal email on this topic, but as was explained by BNB this had nothing to do with this blog.
Although I can appreciate your feelings of shock in what happened I do understand to some degree the thinking behind the action. You did refuse to answer the question of whether or not you were connected with Sea Shepherd or if you thought it was right for the sealers name and phone number to be made public by the Society.
I also find it interesting that although you work with this group you not only didn't defend the questionable financial operations discussed in our expose, but you even saw fit to pretend (because that's what it amounts to) that you were just a concerned citizen, by not identifying yourself as a member of SS.
You ma'am have just lost all credibility.
Great debate folks.
For anyone interested in the truth about Animal Rights Activists, you might want to check out our links section under "Fishing and Sealing Links". There you will find a great site called Animal Crackers that you should find very enlightening.
Any neanderthal who can kill a baby whitecoat seal deserves to be out of a living, there is no place in civilised society for thugs such as these and most countries have woken up to eco tourism prehaps you are still to backward to realise this.
Power to animal right activists long may they reign, whatever anyone thinks of them they have no ulterior motive but animal welfare in other words they are decent human beings.
Mercury,
Perhaps you have been living on Mecury for the past twenty years and decided to join on Earth today? To fill you in, Whitecoats have not been killed for the better part of twenty years.
I will take a moment for that to sink into your neanderthal brain.
Now that it has sunk in, why don't you actually do some rearch on the subject instead of basing an opinion on something that you obviously know nothing about.
touchy ain't she. If she feels she's subjected to stalking, she should report it to the authorities, however its not , so she won't. More DRAMA!
touchy ain't she. If she feels she's subjected to stalking, she should report it to the authorities, however its not , so she won't. More DRAMA!
How does the "financial irregularities" of Sea Shepherd, diminish the overwhelming sentiment against the Seal Hunt?
Are you truly suggesting that the 69% of Canadians and close to 90% of Americans have been duped by an activist group 99% of Americans have never heard of?
This is strange logic even by Newfie standards.
Americans oppose the seal hunt for the same reason Canadians oppose it, Mexicans oppose it, Europeans, Australians, New Zealanders, Africans, South Americans, etc...oppose it.
It's cruel. Its barbaric. Its unnecessary.
It goes against mainstream common morality. The same way bigamy, polygamy, child marriage, genital mutilation, animal sacrifice, whaling, dogfighting, cockfighting, bullfighting, arranged marriages, and Scientology all go against mainstream common morality.
If such actions are truly an integral part of NFLD, LAB and Atlantic Canadian culture, I would humbly suggest that the Canada and the World are far better off allowing that culture to die out. Or better yet, killing it off entirely.
Which isn't to say Canada can't, or shouldn't, allow the seal hunt to continue. Obviously, they have the legal right (until someone challenges maritime water rights, which Canada violates), and morally, Canada has never demonstrated any real backbone or willpower.
But what it does mean is, as along as the seal hunt continues, those who participate, those who support and those who allow it will be duty bound to put up with the moral judgments, the activism, the legal challenges and the attempt to destroy both the hunt and the livelihoods of those who profit from it.
That is the price of being immoral.
Why do I always get to follow KUJO?!
Marie, final post for me. Googling isn't stalking - if so I also stalked Patriot and NL_expatriat and others. I am as gentle a person as you will ever meet, absolutely no hostility meant.
If you want to find more about me just google "uneducated, unhealthy, alcoholic, wife-beating, child molesting, unemployed, unskilled, useless, worthless and meaningless" and then "bigamy, polygamy, child marriage, genital mutilation, animal sacrifice, whaling, dogfighting, cockfighting, bullfighting, arranged marriages, and Scientology"
You should come up to Newfoundland and Labrador some time, I really think you would get a different opinion of us, even if you never change your mind on the seal hunt.
So, Kujan, can you specify 'exactly' what is immoral about it? is it skinning them alive? is it depleting a species? is it killing juvenile animals (pups)? is it using animals for fur? what is it? each of these issues can be debated point for point. But IF you just want to say its immoral, you are stating an opinion that you do not have to 'defend' because it is just an opinion...
and just what do you mean about Canada violating maritime laws? This is Paul Watsons nonsense. Its Canadian Territorial waters, its not an endangered species, please elaborate. I look forward to that one playing out in court...I bet Watson wont be there though...
and I will stand up and say that I beleive that many people are indeed duped by Paul Watson, HSUS< IFAW, and others...people in far removed places be it in Canada or Zimbabwe, who are presented with one side of an issue, on a subject they know nothing about, are likely to be influenced by that one sided information. The ignorance is clear when many of the same people start mouthing off in these forums. Polls are easily manipulated.
If you think that the information is not one sided, do a google search and compare notes on what you find. an overwhelming majority of hits re: seal hunt are AR sites like SSCS, HSUS, IFAW and satelite organisations...read the material and its almost all the same, and almost always misinformation, misleading or untrue. The amount of information countering that is very limited.
They can't even quote their own studies correctly...and IFAW sponsored 'so called independant' veterinarian report on the seal hunt in 2001 says that clubbing seals is humane if done properly, yet Paul Watson and others will simply say to the world (over and over and over...)that it is 'inherently cruel' to club a seal...things get lost in the translation.so, you wonder why people who know nothing about the seal hunt oppose it? because they only ever get the one side of it.
Here's a good poll question:
Who likes the taste of seal meat?
Seal meat tastes great to me, nice and oily, usually had it after it's been canned or fresh in a pastry (Seal Flipper Pie)
I haven;t had it in a long time but it is good. A little strong for some people's taste though.
Used to be people selling carcass or flippers door to door at one time. Flippers at St. John's waterfront used to be a big thing in the spring , not sure what its like now...
flippers still are for sale on the waterfronts during the season and they still taste as great as ever.
Kujan said:
Americans oppose the seal hunt for the same reason Canadians oppose it, Mexicans oppose it, Europeans, Australians, New Zealanders, Africans, South Americans, etc...oppose it.
It's cruel. Its barbaric. Its unnecessary.
Patriot Replies:
Do americans oppose eating pate d'fois gras in their restaraunts? A concoction created by force feeding geese massive amounts of food that would be equivilent to a person eating 20 lbs or more a day.
These geese often have rubber bands places around thier necks to keep them from regurgitating the food and some have wire placed around their bodies to prevent their horribly enlarged abdomens from bursting. They live for months and months and suffer unimaginably, much longer than a seal being clubbed would live. If you want proof of this there is a video available on the internet. I wouldn't suggest you view it however because it is much more disturbing than any seal hunt video could ever be.
What about U.S. restaraunts serving veal from young baby cows kept immobile from birth to tenderize the meat?
As for other countries, I'm sure south america which promotes bull fights and kills thousands of bulls a year by slowly stabbing them to death for entertainment are really upset about the seal hunt.
Every country has its own issues to contend with and perhaps non more than the U.S.
Kujan said:
It goes against mainstream common morality. The same way bigamy, polygamy, child marriage, genital mutilation, animal sacrifice, whaling, dogfighting, cockfighting, bullfighting, arranged marriages, and Scientology all go against mainstream common morality.
Patriot replies: Yes, I agree that in my opinion many of these things are immoral. You seem to be pretty big on deciding what is moral or immoral for anyone else. Scientology for example is a religious choice and whether or not you like it is your problem.
You must not live in a glass house. Fortunately the fact that you find the hunt or anything else personally immoral does not make it so nor does it make it illegal.
to Mercury, re; above post claiming that ARAs are good decent people with no ulterior motives...no doubt some, maybe many are...but many are not...see link below.
http://www.vare.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=30&Itemid=2
crazyamerican here
Spend a couple of days away and look what happens... you miss an entire thread..
Backing up to Kujan.
"Your people are the most uneducated, unhealthy, alcoholic, wife-beating, child molesting, unemployed, unskilled, useless, worthless and meaningless group of Canucks in all of Canada. "
Almost makes you Newfies seem American :):):)
(usually that stuff gets reserved for Americans but at least you didn't get the whole warmongering part)
Come to think of it, that's probably another reason I want to come visit.
On a serious note.. when those kinds of comments occur the debate if there ever was one is over.
At the risk of causing this whole thing to blow up again ,, or maybe with the intent :)... here's a salient question for the group...
Do animals actually have rights? Or is it that some cultures anothropomorphize animals in order to bestow rights, in which case there are no inherent rights at all?
Ah...Foie Gras.
Hmm. I just saw a press release on this same subject regarding some chef.
Atlantic Canada must have collective ADD. Once the subject turns to you, you all change the subject.
For the record - no, I oppose Foie Gras and veal, but not beef, poultry, or fish. Many of you won't see the distinction between that and the seal hunt. I will not waste perfectly good energy explaining to you the morality of utility. Hopefully Myles will.
Yes, bullfighting, baiting, etc...all throughout the world are wrong. Yes, the Spaniards can be wrong on one thing and right on another. Does this make them hypocrites? Of course not. Nor does it make you hypocrites for defending the seal hunt and opposing foie gras.
As for Isdaby, I'd no sooner categorize the moral wrong of the seal hunt than I would the moral wrong of abortion. In both cases, legality is separate, but if you do not see the basic immorality involved, you simply lack the light to participate in the discussion.
Oh, one more thing...
SCIENTOLOGY IS NOT A RELIGION!!!
It's a cult. Even Canadians should be able to see that.
They believe that Earth was colonized by aliens, and worship the writings of a schizophrenic failed sci-fi author busted for tax fraud 2,318 times.
Come on. Do the words "Hale-Bop" mean anything?
That's it. This is a blog for NFLD and LABS, and I am neither, so I will leave you all to it.
Kujan says -"...if you do not see the basic immorality involved, you simply lack the light to participate in the discussion."
?!!...I lack the light to participate in the discussion?? how so?
you are not participating in a 'discussion', you spew a stream of racist , ignorant insults, followed by pontifications of moral high ground yet with out offering any discussion to back it up.
sorry, again, just what is it about the seal hunt that you find 'immoral'? clearly you don't take the AR line that its just wrong to use animals. Is it the fur thing? is it skinning alive (there is evidence contrary to the popular myth), is it that most are 'babies'?? (juveniles may be more apt), killed in front of their 'moms'? (once weaned after about 12 days the mothers clear off-so the often quoted myths about anguished mothers witnessing the murder of their offspring is a bit of a stretch)...come on Kujan, you pontificate moral superiority but don't discuss it...
abortion or pre-marital sex, many moral decisions are 'personal judgements' in the face of legal choices...so, what basis do you use to call the seal hunt immoral...if its no more than an opinion,you should say so, or just keep it to yourself. IF there is some basis to it, please share the 'light'...
You people are sick. Apparently, we live in a day and age where inhumanely slaughtering innocent baby animals is perfectly acceptable...if it's for MONEY. It's all about greed, people. 'Oh, well, it helps the economy, blah blah blah...' I guess it's OK to be cruel as long as it brings a profit. Real nice morals, there. It's nice to know that sealers, (one of which who dropped trow and masturbated in front of a protester, mind you), are profiting from this senseless murder. Who CARES about the baby seals, as long as THAT idiot is getting a paycheck?
Well done.
The Claims of the Ignorant...
I need the money.
Its tradition.
Its part of our culture.
Hmm. Used to justify child slavery, prostitution, genital mutilation, honor killings, murder, polygamy, rape...
Fine company you keep.
Dear anonymous(s), just what is it about the seal hunt that disgusts you so much?
'Culture' and 'tradition' are only used to offer 'context' as to why we don't find it as offensive as you, and that context allows us to look at issues such as 'humane' kill, etc, and know that very few seals are killed cruelly, and in fact are killed the same as most meat animals (stand behind farmer john when he kills the steer...). It is not 'inherently cruel' to club a seal. Although clearly thats the message you take from SSCS 'information'.
iF all you plan to do is call newfoundlanders down ot the dirt, do us all a favour and don't waste our time. If you want to educate us on some issues, or discuss some aspects of it, please do so.
To C-American:
Good points, and you are absolutely right when you say,
"when those kinds of comments occur the debate if there ever was one is over."
Abusive language, racial slurs, inuendo and lies do not a debate make. As a matter of fact, those tactics are usually the second last refuge of a scoundrel. The last being wrapping him or her self in the glory of their country's flag.
As usual c-american, you have cut through the crap and hit the nail on the head.
What do you ARA Animal Rights Activists think of the practice of killing rabbits using pepper?
In NL they put pepper on a rock and along comes a rabbit and sniffs the pepper and bashes his head out on the rock!
Now is this not inhumane?
To NL-Expatriate:
I agree with you on this one. Rabbit Peppering is something I don't agree with.
Also, why is it we never hear anyone trying to stop the walrus slaughter in Alberta. Hundreds of thousands of these animals are killed every year for their nothing more than their tusks and to be used as animal feed, yet we never hear anyone complain. Is it simply because NL is such a small and easy target?
the worst ever I heard of is the baloney hunt- it's absolutely ghastly!!
what a horrible way to go! forced into a tube and wrapped in wax!!!
Hello:
As Founder and President of a Maritime based marine mammal distress network(many of you out there will know exactly who I am), I have been actively involved in the marine mammal rescue and rehabilitation environment in Atlantic Canada for over twenty years. I have observed the seal hunt, year after year for over twenty years, and I can assure you the level of cruelty existing in the hunt today would not be tolerated in any civilized country. In the United States, seals and other marine mammals have been protected from hunting since 1972 under the Marine Mammal Protection Act.
Recently, available evidence suggests that tens of thousands of harp seals . . . mostly pups under the age of three months . . . die in a manner that is inconsistent with contemporary animal welfare standards. There are numerous instances where animals are clubbed or shot and not rendered immediately unconscious. The government suggests that the estimated number of animals in this category is about 26,000 seal pups. From video evidence under review, the estimated proportion of animals in this category ranges from a minimum of 11% to about 40%. If such percentages are at all typical of the Canadian hunt, they suggest that 26,000 to 96,000 harp seal pups annually are not rendered immediately unconscious after being clubbed or shot, but rather are left to suffer for some time before being killed. If these results are in any way representative of the entire hunt, they would suggest that somewhere between 41,000 and 100,000+animals are skinned while still conscious. This is unconscionable . . . and beyond belief.
Thousands of carcasses of clubbed, shot, mutilated and partially skinned seal pups wash up on Canada's Atlantic coast beaches every year following the seal hunt. It's difficult to fathom why the government continues to promote this barbaric and cruel kill when so many young animals suffer. Perhaps it is because we Canadians are kept in the dark and our government deliberately suppresses this information. Outside of the Maritimes little or nothing is known in Canada about the atrocities and cruelty of the seal hunt. This ignorance of facts goes a long way to explain a propaganda-driven polarization between those of us Canadians opposed to the hunt, and those who support it.
I have never observed a seal killed with a single blow. CBC-TV footage of this year’s hunt clearly shows that sealers inflict multiple blows to kill . . . there was not a single picture of a seal killed with one blow. Under the regulations three blows to the head are mandated, the theory being that three such blows should be enough to render the animal unconscious. In fact often sealers will pound the animal again and again and again as the small animal screams and squirms.
It has been documented by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans that a number of animals each year are hooked and dragged across the ice while still conscious and some of these are still alive by the time they reach the decks of sealing vessels. Such seals almost certainly would have been struck with a club, a hakapik, or some illegal weapon like a boat hook or gaff; hooked while still conscious; dragged across the ice floes for some distance; hoisted onto the ship (using the hook imbedded, most likely, in its jaw or eye socket); and thrown onto the deck of the ship. Incidents like these characterize some of the worst examples of cruelty associated with the Canadian seal hunt.
It is also well documented by the government, some 5% of pups clubbed or shot, escape wounded into the sea and are never recovered. This means that more than 12,000 pups annually have been "struck and lost". An unknown proportion of these animals will have subsequently died from their injuries.
Some years ago, the seal hunt in the Gulf of St. Lawrence took place less than a mile off the North shore of Prince Edward Island. During the first week of April, thousands of seal carcasses were found along North shore beaches and the PEI National Park. About 50% of the carcasses were intact, except for scavenged eyes, missing hearts, livers, genitals and flippers. Many carcasses had extensive surgical-like cuts circumferential around the body. Approximately 10% of these carcasses were those of immature hooded seals; the rest were immature harp seals, about half of which still had their white coat intact.
The gruesome appearance of thousands of mutilated carcasses, particularly the pattern of cuts on the bodies of a large proportion of them, prompted members of my network, and some members of the public to conclude that this mortality was clearly the direct result of "struck and loss" activity of seal hunters. (Excavation of the beaches in the Prince Edward Island National Park will reveal the remains of hundreds of seals that were struck, shot and lost).
Thousands of carcasses of clubbed, shot, mutilated and partially skinned seal pups wash up on Canada's Atlantic coast beaches every year following the seal hunt. It's difficult to fathom why the government continues to promote this barbaric and cruel kill when so many young animals suffer. Perhaps it is because we Canadians are kept in the dark and the government deliberately suppresses this information. Outside of the Maritimes little or nothing is known in Canada about the atrocities and cruelty of the seal hunt. This ignorance of facts goes a long way to explain a propaganda-driven polarization between those of us Canadians opposed to the hunt, and those who support it.
The government claims that baby seals are not being killed anymore and that anti-seal hunt groups misrepresent the facts when they claim this is a slaughter of seal pups. They said recently "The seals hunted are self-reliant, independent animals that must already have molted their white coat before being hunted. They are no longer part of a family unit".
The government is confusing the facts by redefining the definition of a baby seal. The fact is that 95 per cent of the seals being killed are between 12 days and 12 weeks of age. They may not be newborn "whitecoats" anymore, but the difference in age is meaningless. Worse, these carefully orchestrated DFO public-relations campaigns twist the facts of the seal hunt for the benefit of the well-funded sealing industry.
I would not condone or support a cruel mass slaughter of adult seals, nor would anyone else in the humane or conservation movement. The mass slaughter of any animal cannot be justified by the fact that someone can make a fast buck off the killing.
Concerned people around the world have an interest in the virtues of conservation and humane behavior. The right to defend life takes precedence over the act of cruelly extinguishing life.
The decision to support the seal kill for such a bogus reason is motivated by politics and not science. The politicians in Ottawa need to prevent the fishermen from pointing the finger at the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. They need a scapegoat and that scapegoat is the harp seal.
Former Fisheries Minister Brian Tobin said "the decline of the cod is the fault of one culprit and his first name is Harp and his last name is Seal". He was saying what the fishermen wanted to hear and ignoring his own departmental biologists.
Many Canadians remember Hon. R. John Efford as Newfoundland's Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and for working to ban all photography from the seal hunt to stop the documentation of cruelty. On May 4, 1998, during the Newfoundland House of Assembly Proceedings he is on record as saying: "I would like to see the 6 million seals, or whatever number is out there, killed and sold, or destroyed or burned. I do not care what happens to them . . . the more they kill the better I will love it." With attitudes such as this, it is hard for other nations to imagine there could ever be a humane, sustainable seal hunt in Canada.
The government maintains the fiction that its seal hunt policies are based on science, not political or economic considerations. DFO scientists provide the "political" science to support this assertion. DFO scientists who provide the right science in the government’s view are promoted, and those who voice scientific opinions inconsistent with government policy suffer a dead-end career track. Other scientists whose research grants and livelihood are dependant upon patronage from DFO, also try to provide "politically correct" science. The DFO has a disastrous record of fisheries management, and should be thoroughly discredited. Indeed, almost every species that has come under DFO management has suffered a population collapse . . . the cod collapse was not an exception; it was an example of the rule, as in the collapse of the West coast salmon fishery.
The Fisheries Minister and his officials have been quoted in the media as saying that the seal hunt brings badly needed income to impoverished fishing communities. In a recent interview he said "Unfortunately, this industry and its importance to thousands of Canadians are often misunderstood and clouded by misleading rhetoric and sensational images that tell a selective, biased, and often false story about the seal hunt. The tragic result is that this industry, and the people who rely on it for a living, are undeservedly cast in a negative light by a few powerful organizations putting their own agendas ahead of the truth". The New Zealand Herald, April 06, 2005.
My organization is not a powerful organization, we are a "grass roots" maritime based group of concerned volunteers, who understand truth from fiction. The seal hunt is not economically important to the Atlantic Provinces. In Newfoundland, where 93% of the hunt occurs, the landed value of the seal hunt accounts for a fraction of one tenth of one percent of your province's economy. Last year, the average sealer, after their costs, brought home a little more than $1000. Whale watching is worth more to Newfoundland than sealing, and eco-tourism is worth more than the entire fishery. Sealing is less than 2% of the landed value of the Newfoundland fishery.
Newfoundland is no longer economically depressed. The federal government recently reached a deal on sharing offshore-oil revenue with Newfoundland and Nova Scotia. Yet, the government still justifies the slaughter of seals as an economic boost for fishermen left jobless or underemployed after wiping out the once-abundant Atlantic cod.
Clearly, people who live in isolated coastal communities in Atlantic Canada, do so by choice. From infancy they are exposed to the concept that the sea is their only source of survival. Too often they see it as their right, defined by law, custom, and religious doctrine, to exploit animals. They engage in the annual seal hunt by choice. Their way of life is subsidized by public money both individually by way of unemployment insurance benefits, vocational training subsidies, and other community subsidies from the public purse. These people are not poor by any standards. They live the life they choose at the expense of the rest of the country.
The voluntary debt-load incurred in the purchase of expensive new fish-boats and gear, is no different to the loans taken out by anybody starting a business or equipping a workshop. These things are undertaken in the full knowledge of the obligation they bring.
In many cases there is public money available for relocation of families to other areas, where they have a higher standard of living and greater opportunity for their children. Large numbers have migrated to central and western areas of employment. Their work is well regarded and has become an integral part of a thriving economy.
The Minister claims "The sensational images and breathless rhetoric used to criticize this industry amount to a slap in the face to the thousands of families who, through the generations, have made their living from this resource. It is a real disgrace to have such negative light being cast on the Canadian men and women of this industry, and on the many proud coastal communities that rely on the seal hunt for their very survival".
These few people are not poor insulted and misunderstood beings, but rather people who continue to pursue a cruel and medieval way of life by slaughtering seals in spite of stiffening opposition, from the rest of their countrymen and the civilized world. In a recent poll, 70% of Canadians were opposed to the seal hunt.
You know that Atlantic Canada's fishing communities are the most politically relevant group with a stake in promoting sealing. Fishing community's support of sealing is a major determinant of the government’s seal hunt policies. If the fishing community did not support the sealing industry or even opposed sealing, the government would have a powerful political incentive to change its seal hunt policies. Where East Coast communities have become dependent on the slaughter of animals, the government should subsidize replacement industries.
The government has for years attempted to link the East coast slaughter of seals to native culture. The fact is, however, that not one Inuit person is employed in the slaughter that is targeting 319,500 seals in 2005. This is just pure propaganda; a government media spin to generate sympathy for the sealers.
The Canadian Government continues to subsidize the killing by providing interest-free loans, grants to seal processors, market research and other assistance and support services of coastguard vessels, and an ineffective pretence of the enforcement of the regulations for the conduct of the hunt by a few fisheries officers. (Thousands of square miles of ice floes cannot possibly be overseen by a handful of fisheries officers).
DFO claims that fishery Officers conduct regular at-sea surveillance. 1 fishery officer to check 7 sealing vessels equates to one fishery officer overseeing the work of up to 50 individual sealers . . . an impossible task! Especially when exposed to the threat of violence by sealers, as occurred in the last several years.
Montreal Gazette, Canada - 22 Mar 2005 " Seal oil sold as reason to keep hunt alive . . .Fisheries and Oceans Minister Geoff Regan is touting this byproduct as one of many reasons why Canada's seal hunt will not be banned. "
Seal meat, seal oil, protein hydrolysate powder and omega 3 cream and most recently seal bread, may well be contaminated. A fact not disclosed by DFO. Seals like most aquatic species harvested off the Atlantic coast of Canada (and in the Gulf of St. Lawrence) have a high burden of heavy metals (zinc, mercury), organochlorines, Dioxin, and PCBs. People must be obviously aware that the only reliable market for the meat, and a very cheap market at that, is to produce meal for use at fur farms. Prince Edward Island, in particular, is noted for fox farming. It seems especially odious that one kind of horrendous abuse, the slaughter of seals, fuels yet another horrendous abuse, the keeping of fox, mink, and other furbearers in tiny cages to be bred, cruelly kept, and then killed in the interest of fashion and profit.
The seal penis is marketed in Asia, or to Asians in the Western world, as an aphrodisiac. The Asian "sex trade" is, itself, a sleazy business that often victimizes children. There is no medical basis for belief that teas or other products derived from harp seal penises provide an aphrodisiac function, but whether they do or not the killing of animals to produce the product cannot be justified in the name of morality.
In a recent interview in the New Zealand Herald "Geoff Regan: Beyond the rhetoric of Canada's seal hunt" claimed, "In 2002, the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association (CVMA) issued a Special Report on Animal Welfare and the Harp Seal Hunt in Atlantic Canada, which concluded that virtually all harp seals - fully 98 per cent - are killed in a humane manner."
In truth, Mr. Regan and the public should know, the report carries the caveat that, "The views expressed in this article are those of the authors and do not constitute an official position of the CVMA".
The report was published by five Canadian veterinarians (some of whom were recipients of DFO grants) based on observations of the 2001 seal hunt.
These veterinarians were allowed to make direct observations of the hunt, from sealing vessels. These observations were made from sealing vessels so that the sealers were unavoidably aware that observers were present. The presence of an observer on a sealing vessel may have incited sealers to hit the seals skulls more vigorously. The presence of an observer also has the potential to modify other sealing practices, including checking for a corneal reflex and bleeding animals immediately after clubbing.
The fact that the Minister and his officials continue to cite a small part of the report to deceive people, indicates a complete lack of political will to ensure that this cruel hunt meets the animal welfare standards expected of Canada in the 21"century.
As Canada's Minister of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO), and a proud Atlantic Canadian, he must surely be embarrassed by such a sordid and bloody spectacle that is completely out of control and out of touch with today's moral values. Today, after decades of hunting, less than 5 million harp seals remain, and the government's five-year plan could involve the slaughter of more than a million animals.
The Canadian seafood industry is worth approximately $3 billion dollars and the seal hunt is worth only $16 million.
The Canadian fishing industry and most fishermen support the slaughter of seals.
The cruelty continues at a magnitude not previously seen in this century. The international community is appalled by the cruelty of Canada's hunt for baby seals. In opposition, Italy, Belgium and the Netherlands are creating legislation to ban seal products and the U.S. and the European Council are creating resolutions condemning the hunt.
In defiance of world opinion and to the eternal damnation of Canada's reputation, and the perpetuation of a miserable degrading existence for a few coastal communities. All this for a few lousy votes and a total lack of moral backbone.
Little wonder there is increasing international demand for a boycott of Canadian seafood. Concerned groups have been actively lobbying against the killing of seals since the 1960's. The boycott is a last resort after years of imploring Canadian officials to place restrictions on cruel seal hunting practices. They feel they are left with no recourse but to wage the struggle in stark economic terms.
Some 5,000 U.S. food distributors have been approached to join the boycott of Canadian seafood until the hunt is stopped. The United States remains Canada's most important market for seafood, and these exports were valued at $2.2 billion in 2003.
Many people from other countries that I have spoken to recently are outraged by the slaughter of these helpless and defenseless animals, and consider Canada a Northern Pariah.
By what right has the government to bring this insult upon the Canadian people ?
Any economic loss from this boycott will be entirely laid at the feet of the Liberal government.
It should be noted that neither I or any member of my volunteer network were invited to the meeting taking place in St. John's this week.
I just want to address Patriot's comment for all of us (inlcuding those of us opposed to the seal hunt) to 'keep the comments comment because each comment puts more pennies in his pocket and they add up.' I'm actually quite pleased about that. I believe that his willingness to put his comments on the Web does this serious issue a great service. In fact, I personally believe that his (I assume he is a male) site will play more of a role in ending the seal huint than any other single individual will. I have found an extraordinary amount of information about why the seal hunt should end in the comments to his postings, informaiton I would not have found any other way. But also, I have learned some interesting things about the plight and hopes of the people in N&L that will help me come up with solutions I might offer to make up for the loss of the "traditon" of slaughtering the seals, a practice that is scorned world-wide. And I believe that these solutions will be able to be used in other places where other terrible practices against animals are happening. So let me add my voice to Patriot's (albeit for a different reason) and plead with others who are opposed to the site to continue to post comments to his words. If his words and those comments that support his words do not convince you to his way of thinking, they are actually providing a valuable service for those of us opposed to the hunt. And I am particulary thrilled that his postings are picked by the the Canada Free Press website because they are then picked up by Google's News Alerts and prominently featured on your Google Home News page if you set "Seal Hunt" as one of your key word searches. So, Patriot, I may not agree with you one iota on the issue of the seal hunt (but I will readily admit that I agree with you from time to time on some of your other postings), but I thank you for your willingless to speak your mind and allow the anti-seal hunt community to either be convinved that you are right or gather strength in its convictions.
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