Canada Day - Remembering the Battle of the Somme
Sunday is Canada Day, a celebration of the nation of Canada, but did you know it’s also a very historic day for Newfoundland and Labrador?
July 1st is the anniversary of the battle of the Somme. One of the most horrific battles of WWI.
It was on July 1, 1916 that this historic battle began. It was also that day that the Newfoundland Regiment, later to be given the status of “Royal”, fought its first engagement in France. An engagement that would prove to be the regiment’s costliest.
The men of the Newfoundland Regiment were all but slaughtered.
After the battle, one report of their efforts, from their British Divisional Commander, said “It was a magnificent display of trained and disciplined valour, and its assault failed of success because dead men can advance no further.”
For its size, no unit suffered heavier losses than did the Newfoundland Regiment.
They began the battle on that fateful day with 801 men. Only 68 answered the call the next day.
For decades it was a custom in the province to remember these fine men on July 1, the anniversary of the day so many perished. Unfortunately, long after our people entered into confederation, the government of Canada decided that official recognition of Canada Day should be set for the same date. No consideration was given to the fact that for our people the date already had a special significance. One comparable to Canada’s Remembrance Day.
With Canada’s decision made the people of the province stood silently by and attended solemn ceremonies or watched legion parades in the morning, only to raise the Canadian flag in the afternoon. It was what some would call it a livable compromise, others a shame.
These days it’s rare for even these activities to happen.
These days the parades and legion gatherings, if they happen at all, are relegated to another arbitrarily determined time or even to a different day.
On July 1st Newfoundland and Labrador lost many sons in what was arguably one of the bloodiest battles of World War I, including four from one family alone.
The historical acts of remembrance our people took part in was woven into the fabric our shared history. That fabric is now torn and tattered. The memories relegated to the back pages of history and the dust of battles past swept under the great Canadian carpet.
Not so long ago a small group of protestors would gather to remember that terrible day by wearing black arm bands and marching on Confederation Hill. Will they do the same this year or a year from now I wonder, or will their numbers simply dwindle away to nothing over time?
One can only hope that at least some segment of our population refuses to forget those who came before us.
Newfoundland and Labrador has a rich, vibrant and independent history that should make everyone hold their heads high with pride. That rich history has been neglected, overlooked and pushed aside for so long that its been all but replaced by the history of Canada. A country we are a part of today, but one we weren’t a part of during either of the World Wars or for the centuries before them.
146 comments:
Unfortunately, long after our people entered into confederation, the government of Canada decided that official recognition of Canada Day should be set for the same date.
It's strange you are calling on people to remember history. Canada Day - formerly Dominion Day - had been marked for decades before Beaumont Hamel even happened to share the date with.
There is obviously no limit to the ahistorical nonsense, to wit:
"Unfortunately, long after our people entered into confederation, the government of Canada decided that official recognition of Canada Day should be set for the same date."
July 1 was first celebrated in 1868.
The date was established as Canada's national holiday in 1879.
July 1 was established as Commemoration Day in Newfoundland in 1916 and first held in 1917.
Confederation between Canada and Newfoundland occurred in 1949.
So by what bizarre twist of reality did Canada establish a national holiday on July 1 long after Confederation, i.e. in 1949?
OMG, do you two a$$holes every stop.
If you have nothing good to say, then you should shut your mouth and say nothing. Sometimes your ignorance surprises me. You should be ashamed of yourself.
july 1st is the saint’s day for aaron, the brother of moses; st gaius, pope and martyr; oliver plunket, martyr; st simeon salus; st esther; st sophia and her daughters faith, hope and charity, martyrs.
it is also the birth day of johann heinrich heidegger, philosopher; gottfried leibniz, mathematician; william strunk jr, grammarian; estee lauder, cosmetics maker; debby harry, blondie lead singer; dan aykroyd, actor; and diana, princess of wales.
it is the death day of the composer bach; novelist harriet beecher stowe; wolfman jack; actress margaux hemingway; and actors robert mitchum, walter matthau and marlon brando.
the following is a sample of events that happened on july 1st, in addition to our own july drive and the foundation of canada:
1690 - battle of the boyne
1858 - the reading of charles darwin and alfred russel wallaces papers on evolution
1862 - the battle of malvern hill (american civil war)
1863 - the battle of gettysburg began
1873 - prince edward island joined canada
1916 - first day on the somme: on the first day of the battle of the somme 20,000 soldiers of the british army (not just newfoundlanders - ask the aussies about this sometime)were killed and 40,000 wounded
1942 - world war ii: first battle of el alamein
1967 - the european economic union was created from a merger of the european common market, the european coal and steel community and the european atomic energy commission
1979 - sony introduced the walkman
1980 - o canada made canada's anthem
2002 - the international criminal court was established to try people for genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes
that’s a lot of stuff. and we can remember it all. were big enough.
Perhaps this advice was meant for yourself, starrigan:
"If you have nothing good to say, then you should shut your mouth and say nothing. Sometimes your ignorance surprises me. You should be ashamed of yourself."
or perhaps you meant Myles.
June 28, 2007 5:51 PM - You should learn to follow your own advise "Eddy".At least starrigan is not a sell-out to the federal govenement of canada.
OH by the way,how much money did you make this month "Eddy' selling info to the Feds.I'm sure it couldn't be that successful by the look of that cheep watch you have on your pathetic little wrist.Why don't you move away like those you condem "Eddy" and get a real job .Doesn't the smell of all that blood on your money get you stomach sick.Disjusting.
A new formula was developed in 1980 whereby the National Committee (the federal government organization charged with planning Canada's Birthday celebrations) stressed and sponsored the development of local celebrations all across Canada. "Seed money" was distributed to promote popular and amateur activities organized by volunteer groups in hundreds of local communities. The same approach was also followed for the 1981 celebrations with the addition of fireworks displays in 15 major cities across the nation.
On October 27, 1982, July 1st which was known as "Dominion Day" became "Canada Day".
Since 1985, Canada Day Committees are established in each province and territory to plan, organize and coordinate the Canada Day celebrations locally. Grants are provided by the Department to those committees
You were saying "Eddy"
I was saying, republican, that Myles point was sheer nonsense.
You've proved nothing, yet again.
I was saying, republican, that Myles point was sheer nonsense.
You've proved nothing, yet again.
The fact the day changed names does not alter the fact that July 1st was established as Canada's national holiday in 1879.
Myles' comment was factually incorrect to the point of being silly.
Nicely said Ed you a$$hole, we're getting to see your true stripes these days. You seem to have nothing but contempt for all things Newfoundland and Labrador. We all know you're a sell out but now you're being just plain insulting to all NL's. We could care less about you contradicting yourself on a regular basis and we know that you kneel and bob to your Ottawa Overlords but don't cross that line where you are insulting the memory of the thousands of Newfoundlanders that gave their lives in the most horrible ways imaginable during the first great war. You are truly being a pig. Like I said earlier, if you have nothing good to say about something that is near and dear to the hearts of real Newfoundlands and Labradorians, I suggest you had better say nothing.
starrigan, I only have contempt for those who consistently misrepresent facts and, as you just decided to do yet again, resort merely to personal insults in place of any sort of fact and reasoned argument.
That you do so from behind the cowardly cloak of a pseudonym just compounds your error.
I indeed have a great deal to say about an issue that is of profound importance and I will say it as I have each year for some years now. you likely won't read it since to do so would force you to do more than sit back and hurl cheap abuse.
I resent greatly the use of July 1 as a political playtoy by you, Myles and anyone else who wishes to attempt it.
As Myles demonstrated in this little commentary he scarcely can present the fact of it correctly let alone appreciate the significance of the event in its proper and wider context. It becomes yet another piece of plasticine to be massaged and twisted into whatever shape suits the purpose at the moment.
If you and your colleagues hold no respect for things you claim to defend, then obviously you have no respect for anything at all. This has become painfully obvious.
One of the greatest of frauds perpetrated by you and your anonymous confreres is that you and you alone represent the true best interests of this place and its people.
This jingoism is nothing more than hollow posturing on your part and a horrid abuse of men of unquestioned personal who gave their lives a very long time ago.
If you have something of value to contribute anywhere, then by all means do so.
In the meantime continue to produce the tripe you do. Each time you comment you simply demonstrate both the ethical and intellectual bankruptcy of your position.
Nice try Ed, you've already shown us what an incredible pig you are. July 1st is an important day for me as Newfoundlander, I don't consider myself a Canadian. It's grossly inaccurate for you to refer to that day as a political play toy. It's a somber day, a time to remember the sacrifice that was made my our forefathers. So leave it alone, pig.
Hi Ed, you accused me of being factually incorrect. Now who's twisting the truth? My commentary stated:
"long after our people entered into confederation, the government of Canada decided that official recognition of Canada Day should be set for the same date."
I never mentioned Dominion Day nor did I contend that the date was picked arbitrarily, simply that it was decided to officially celebrate Canada Day on July 1.
Just in case you find that difficult to understand, I stated a fact and as much as you would like to deny the truth, Canada DID make the decision to celebrate CANADA DAY on July 1 AFTER we entered the Country.
The statement is not factually incorrect as someone else here has already pointed out and it is far from a silly statement.
Once again your federal support at all costs shines through.
A word of advice. You are quickly becoming a parody of yourself and a joke in the blogging world, on open line programs and elsewhere. Believe me, I hear the comments of people from all walks of life and being unlike those in the insulated circles you travel in, these "genuine" people say what they feel, they don't sugar coat things to soothe your ego or anyone elses (even my own).
Now, having wasted a full 5 minutes of my valuable time responding to your drivel I'll take my leave and go back to doing what I always do when someone with a hidden agenda speaks up. Ignore them.
only have contempt for those who consistently misrepresent facts and, as you just decided to do yet again, resort merely to personal insults in place of any sort of fact and reasoned argument.
Ed Hollett ,your a Liar,a Hypocrit and a person of Low Moral Standing .Who just a day ago refused to accept "Fact' from caps lock.
You are making this crusade you have agaisnt Newfoundland's nationalists, a gross self-indulgence in ignorance.You truely are a self-rightouse "PIG"
Sometimes your ignorance surprises me. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Should Myles be ashamed of himself for his historical ignorance?
WJM, maybe you should refrain from posting until you really have something to say. If you had any brains you'd steer clear of this topic. Don't say things just to show how much of an a$$hole you really are.
tsk,tsk,tsk!!! I would like to say .Myles I have my Grandfathers Servive Papers in a Frame on My Wall as I speak.It only cost $500.00 CDN dollars to have them stored as such but I strongly feel that it was money well spent.
why I bring up this point is simple.out of respect for my family and my culture ,I feel that it would not be wise for me to participate in such a discussion.
But,i do want to say Thank-You. As a Former Servive Memeber myself I know in my Heart that those that did lay down thier lives for us only want one thing.For Us to remember.And today I am sure they would be happy to know that you have .
'GOD Love Ya For That Buddy "
Myles' comment was factually incorrect to the point of being silly - nonsence!!! your ideology is a smack in the face to common civility and courtesy "EDDY"coming from a Factual area of thought you betrye yourself to the point of self-mockery.
But,I will say that you are quite the little Monkey aren't you "EDDY"coming here with your over-priced education trying to intimidate those that you feel are "Un-fit" to Challenge your Self-propelled ego!!!!I don't hate you "EddY ,I feel Sorry for you as a human Being .
I hope that you and Lono are close.Hold onto your Life "EDDY"its the only thing that you have .And you dont know its gone till you need it .
Canada and Newfoundland, was, well into the 20th century, a loyal ward of the British Empire. The reverence of British Empire became central to British North American Idenity. The cultural draw to Britain and her imperial aspirations was strong and many British North Americans of the time (Newfoundland included) would be more than willing to aid Britain in what ever endeavors it called upon by its colonial and Dominion counterparts.
In the twentieth century, British North America would continue to erode its colonial past in the means it always had, on peaceful terms. By 1982 Canada had repatriated it’s constitution to home soil and would no longer be seen as a quasi-autonomous Dominion of the British Commonwealth, but one of the first post-modern nations. Still trying to forge its own identity in a time when the volcanic continuity of the nationalism of old has cooled off, Canada has looked to civic nationalism to help form popular identity within the greater context of the now unavoidable global village.
In order to understand what we know as Canada, one must first come to understand is not a single idea or notion, but a series of tangents and precedents that allowed for a space of land, from Victoria to Halifax, to enable its residents to do good in this world. This is an important point to understand as Canada make’s its way into the 21st century.
Canada is at its heart: was the partitioning and synchronizing force that had come to pass over Britain’s remaining loyalist assets in North America. No matter how these entities of British North America were divided. The overlapping heritage and history of British North America and it’s settlement since the discovery of the new world is undeniable, even if political synchronization had not yet occurred the lines and bindings of British North American hellenicity were well in place. In its original reverence to the monarchy and later as commonwealth emerged with shared institutions such as the privy council , these elements eventually transcended into the modern Canadian state, thus a continuity was formed. Such symbols, institutions and ideas forged a collective well identity which facilitated an environment similar to the Pan-Hellenistic mechanisms of Ancient Greece.
When the BNA act was ratified on July 1st 1867 4 provinces, Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick joined together in economic and political union. However, many other entities such as British Columbia, Prince Edward Island had chosen to remain aloof for the time being as the current union did not suit their immediate reality. BC was isolated by a vast swath of crown land; PEI faced with political marginalization, Newfoundland with its Maritime orientation and Catholic establishment, felt little relevance or need for the westward ambitions of protestant Ontario. The proceeding decades would see the remaining hold outs assimilated into the Canadian union. Newfoundland would prove to remain aloof the longest, subsequently gaining Dominion status itself, this would lead to an anomalous partitioning of the British North American entity. However, the events of the of the great depression and the Second World War would make Newfoundland and it’s dependencies aloofness as had it been with the proceeding provinces impractical. Brining that long forgotten continuity was one broadcaster cum politico Joseph R. Smallwood and his radio program “The Barralman” , through his program Smallwood sought to familiarize the island and its dependencies with itself. Through a stew of content which merged commercialism and education, Smallwood’s program would break down the areas aloofness by attending to cultivate an internal identity which he felt could allow for an easier integration into the Canadian experience which had stifled the entry of many provinces before it. In March of 1949 the anomalous partitioning of British North America had been corrected had the distinction of cementing and exploring Canada’s first foray into post modernity, the always and eternal son of British North America, Newfoundland and Labrador.
So in other words it is our history, it always was and it has directly affected our development and outlook. Even if there is not always a blood connection for some, the lore and the institutions still exists. As much as it does for the Asian family who immigrated to British Columbia today or in the 1890’s or the first generation Canadian of Ukrainian decent who’s parents came after the First World War. Is there connection to that history not present, do they not celebrate it?
History is not a web, it is a trunk in which the contents give us the ability to create and interpret the past to learn from and create our future. Look at the US, the primary fallacy of unity observing any period of history is to assume that there was a continuity of continuous regional exchange, as if the entire country was connected by a web of collective information and novelty. While in some ways this connectedness was emerging with the advent of the telegraph and railway. However, the media culture which cemented what many perceive as American identity had yet to mature and the means to achieve a coherent identity were crude at best. In the 19th Century,before and during the Civil War, Consolidation of rail roads was just beginning and the south had little railroad structure to begin with. Ultimately, this meant that major concerns and experiences of the day came from one’s immediate community. If this was the case than how was there any unity among any Americans? This is quite simple; it is fallacious to look at American identity as a web at this point. Rather, it should be modeled as a paradigm in the form of a capsule; distinct and unconnected from other capsules but all containing the same contents, the contents coming from the same origin. In the American context the capsule was the American Revolution and its contents were the values which were aroused from the revolutions outcome. These included the belief in self determination of local affairs, suspicion of unchecked power and a desire for a decentralized form of federalism. These tenets transcended regional realities in a manner similar to a religious doctrine whose ideas universally transfigure those who subscribe to the doctrine.
The North-South fracture did not occur in the absence of shared experiences; rather, it occurred because of the North and the South’s reaction to these experiences. However, much like a religious doctrines ability to draw in diverse people to a single ideal, that ideals application has often been shaped by immediate needs and surroundings of the people it serves. To the south, the primary tenet of life was preserving the comfortable status quo which had been fought to been preserved during the revolution. The lifestyle comprised of rich land owners with a large sustainable workforce which they could openly exploit. While such a reality was not the case for all who dwelled in the south it does provide an example of the sort of lifestyle that many in the south were determined to protect at all costs. The encroachment of Lincoln into the lifeblood of the southern economy would appear no different symbolically than King George the 3rd encroaching on the affairs of the Americas as had been the case eighty years prior. The reins of a distant government with very little perceived insight into the workings of the regions were forcibly making a decision that would cast many into economic ruin should there livelihood be marginalized in the absence of slavery. To those in the south such an affront could not go unchecked. In contrast to the South, the North, whose needs had been satiated by a heavy manufacturing base, saw the sparsely populated South as equally distant in geography as skirting accountability to their fellow human beings. The ability to assert what many felt was the unalienable right of fellow human beings to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” was paramount to the American ideal. The fundamental American belief that, if something is not right with the system, then the system must be changed and that a new system must be forged in for things to move forward. Such was the case with the North and the many abolitionist movements which sought to end to end slavery as a moral ill. This can also be analogues to how many in the colonies sought to end what they perceived as the corruption and decadence of the distant colonial master which was able to affect the affairs of those from afar with no recourse or accountability. It can be seen that the country was divided geographically and that little united them culturally or politically in the midst of the present fray of the time. However, the underlying motivations for each camps course of action cannot be denied to have been motivated by values which had been shared, but utilized so very differently. This can be seen in South’s attempt to protect the order that served them best, to the North’s quest for ideological accountability.
The United States was divided during the civil war and that division was striking. This division did not heal over night after the battle of Gettysburg. Even long after the reconstruction era much division and tribalism manifested itself in my vicious ways. The Klu Klux Klan in its primordial incarnation and subsequent conceptions is one of the many souvenirs taken from this rift of union. How is it, after many years of patchwork healing and the simple turnover of time, that there can be anything that is binds the United States? The answer is the media and popular culture which has been cultivated from the current era of mass communication. In ancient Greece the militant Spartans and the intellectual Athenians had almost little in common with each other in an immediate and environmental sense as the Americans did. However, a certain degree of unity across the Greek world did occur. It occurred in the form of oracles and temples in which in spite of divisive regional attitudes there were certain facets of ritual and culture that connected them. This did not mean that they formed any conscious bond but that they coexisted with many of the same cultural memes. If a Spartan and an Athenian could have reverence for the Delphic oracle, then a boy from the North East and one from the South could both admire the athleticism of Hulk Hogan even though they may be come from worlds apart in terms of geopolitical values.
Identity is present, it isn’t linear, it is manufactured by everyday people and is eventually taken as gospel. You can either take up an ethnocentric, bitter and jingoistic identity that’s self defeating. Or you can look to a grander stage and understand history of North America for what it is, the peaceful synchronizing of colonial entities into an Ark of modernity, post-modernity and the ability of a society to live free from passion. The choice is yours.
You people are fucking morons.
July 1st "happened" 62 years before the battle of Beaumont Hamel.
Our rich history is celebrated every year at memorials in communities across the province, If you're too lazy to attend that's your problem.
Since when did Newfoundland culture become about whining all the time? You're pathetic.
WJM, maybe you should refrain from posting until you really have something to say.
I always do.
That's never very long.
"I never mentioned Dominion Day nor did I contend that the date was picked arbitrarily, simply that it was decided to officially celebrate Canada Day on July 1."
Patriot/Myles:
Your comment is misleading in the extreme and is based on a blatant - and now presumably knowing - misrepresentation.
ALL that occurred in 1982 was a change of the name of the day. That's It.
For you to characterise it as if a solemn day was suddenly claimed de novo by Canada despite knowing the contrary is ridiculous.
To now stand behind your original misrepresentation based on the fact that you "never mentioned Dominion day" doesn't even meet the sniff test of credibility.
starrigan and republican:
Rant on, boys, rant on.
Every personal insult you hurl, every fact you blatant misrepresent, every time you post from behind the cowards' cloak, you just further undermine your cause.
It is strange how the 3 Federalist can deny everything especially when the footprints are there to prove the authenticity of everything that they deny.
Monies from the Federal Government can do a lot of things around
here, things other than those that will strengthen our economy. Strange indeed.
sheer nonsence "EDDY" and you know it .The point Myles was trying to get across was the fact that canada had no significant ties to july 1 st and anyone with a two dollar education can tell that .Not like loyalist day for excample.
canada could have easliy moved it to say july 2,or 3,or 4.See what I mean .
If youve ever been to Ontario "EDDY" you would notice that we are almost there anyway!!!
but ,"EDDY" lets get too the truth here "EDDY".Who is zooming who.I am not a professional
writter ,nor do I Profess to be one.I am not a proffessional debator ,nor do I profess to be one.I dont come here to argue and de-bunk a person because of thier political beliefs .I believe that is a scared decision that every citizen of the world has the right to "CHOOSE".you come here out of the blue ,with your background "EDDY",shouting foul ,foul,and yet you say I have "NO" agenda.who is the Liar and who is the mis-leading folks here.We have already found out who Wallace is and who hired him.
WHy not live up to your own words and tell the truth and be a man of moral conviction,instaed of trying to be just another snake.Why not step-up "EDDY" and live by what you write for once .Or ,you could go back and get that blog going .
You wont will you .we aren't going to stop living and believing in our own private thoughts "EDDY" and the truth will never go away.No matter how much blood money Canada throws at it.your govenment owes more then a few thousand dollars for a "Package" ed.they Owe "Trillions" for the near destruction of an entire culture of people.
And you simply cannot debate that!!!!
Funny how everything signicant to this province is deemed either a myth or mis-representation by the federalitas.
anyway, to hell with canaduh day, i'll be attending the remebrance ceremony and finishing off the day with the good company of my countrymen (not canaduhns).
"they Owe "Trillions" for the near destruction of an entire culture of people."
i dont buy this. newfoundland culture is not near destroyed. it is strong and energetic, and evolving because it is still alive.
you cant have it both ways, guys. are we a distinct people with a living culture, or are we feeble victims on the edge of extinction? could a crowd as lacking in culture and coherent identity as CANADA "destroy" us? MY newfoundland is stronger than that.
My Pink,White ,and Green will always fly at half mast,on July 1st.While the canadains are drinking beer and having a gay ol'time,I will spend the day remembering the sacrafice my grandfather made for my freedom ,my right to free speech,and the comfort of living that i now have.
At 12 ,I will play Ode to Newfoundland ,and then im going to have a drink of "RUM"and RAISE My familys flag and say THANK-YOU to all those that gave thier lives for my nations freedom.
GOD BLESS NEWFOUNDLAND AND LABRADOR!!!
"i dont buy this. newfoundland culture is not near destroyed. it is strong and energetic, and evolving because it is still alive"
Yes babe ,it is alive and well .But the injustice that was done to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador was never fully compensated for .
we are a Distint people with a Gorgeous Culture and nothing makes me more Proud then to say Im from This Province .
Its not the place babe ,for me its the people.I have been in a great many places in this world ,but the people of Newfoundland and Labrador are the most Beautiful people in the world.
if anybody should be shouting at the federal government,it should come from this province.
the Atalantic Accord and Mr Mccann is what started my present interst in Provincial Politics again.
fact is Babe ,Newfounland and Labrador ,time and time again seems to be taken advantage of by the Federal Government .This is not a myth or some made up story of fiction.this is sheer fact,and while this continues ,i will continue to speak my mind on the matter.Its not a feeling of "Victomhood"its wanting from the federal government the respect and acknowledgment of the sacrafices that thease people have made to canada.
And in my opinoin ,we have given to much to ,too ,too many .Newfoundland and Labrador deserve better treatment ,then this.If this was Ontario ,it would simply "NOT" happen.
And ,this lack of fair treatment has brought the Province to this .the constant talk of separtion and moving away from Canada.This was not brought on by the Provincal governement or the people .Newfoundlanders and Labradorians by "NATURE" babe are veruy "HOMEPROUD" people.Have you ever stopped to ask yourself why ,or rather what would make thease people come to such a drastic Ideology as this .It goes agaisnt thier sence of being.Something has had to happen to make thease people think in such a manner.
And from what I can see .from "My OWN OPINION" my familys home has not been treated with respect.And just because I do not live there any longer doesn't mean that im going to role over and allow my familys home to be stripped mined.
we joined canada for a reason Babe ,and its about time canada proved to us ,that they are worth keeping.Not the other way around.
As for coming home,sure,My five year plan is in year three.And ,Yes,i plan on bring a buissness with me.
blah blah blah
no newfoundlander died to protect "our nations' freedom, for free speech or personal comfort.
like every other poor sod who died in the great war, they died because the great powers of europe were fighting each other for land and advantage. they died because arms manufacturers and traders like the Krupps and Kennedys had stuff they wanted to sell. they died because family interests and egos got out of control.
they died for "king and country" - and that was britain, not little newfoundland.
dont get me wrong - they were great men, great soldiers and in some cases great women (frontline nurses). they were brave and loyal and intelligent. but they were not fighting for the freedom or democratic rights of newfoundland or anywhere else.
we didnt gain votes for women or men without property because of ww1. we didnt reform our immigration laws to stop the exclusion of jews and chinese because of ww1. we didnt get universal healthcare or necessary welfare (instead of the workhouse) because of ww1. none of those comforts resulted from the deaths of poor young newfoundland boys.
im not saying dont remember them with honour, because they were honorable men. im saying dont kid yourself about why they died.
republican:
i dont think were disagreeing on fundamentals. i also am a very very proud newfoundlander. the difference between us is that i dont give a shit about what canadians or anyone else say about us or how we are TREATED. my sense of pride as a newfoundlander comes from newfoundland, my family and myself, not from canada or any other outside factor.
it's interesting republican that you and your fellows who comment here regularly seem to find it difficult to handle a simple exchange of views, especially since it one that involves challenging your core beliefs.
In this case, the post by Myles included a fundamentally silly contention on Canada Day and the dates at which things were established.
The consistent pattern of your comment and thyat of others is to resort to the personal smear. People here who don't share your views must be on the take. You and others repeat the lie over and over again.
That's all you have: innuendo and smears.
on top of that you cannot even reveal your identity. It seems passing strange you accuse others of having a hidden agenda and yet consistently hide your own.
We might only wonder why you must conceal who you are.
We might also wonder why it is that the only thing you and your colleagues have to offer up are fabrications, misrepresentations and distortions.
If nothing else, anyone reading this should appreciate that you and your colelagues represent a very small group.
You do not speak for the hundreds of thousand of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians who are proud of where they are from, proud of their heritage and fully aware of what can be accomplished by those same Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, bravely and confidently, as they have done for centuries.
They don't need to make things up, as you and your colleagues do. They do not need to twist and distort. They do not cower behind pseudonyms and hurl personal invective and abuse at people who do nothing except expose the shallowness of your comments.
I'll respond to fast eddy one last time. Ed, I ask you this. The point is that having accepted (or forced) NL into confederation, depending on your view, Canada had truly been a multi-cultural and fair society, would they have chosen July 1 (one of our most solemn days) as a day of official nation wide celebration?
Let me put it another way, if another province, say Ontario, had been a separate entity that became a part of the nation and they had some particularly solemn day (similar to remembrance daty) do you honestly believe Canada would have ignored that and decided to throw a nation wide party on that day?
You're an idiot Ed and everyone knows it. That's why you are obliged to spend so much time discussing the issues (or actually trying to tear down others) on this site. You couldn't get enough attention and readers on your own.
Like I said before, the fact that you called your site "The Barrelman", Joey Smallwoods old alter ego says it all.
Get a real job Ed. It's time you gave up being a shill for interests in Ottawa.
From a previous post on this site (2006)
Lest we Forget.
April the first, nineteen forty-nine
Was a day that I’ll soon not forget.
The radio blared that the “terms” had been signed,
Filling Grandfather’s heart with regret.
I can still see his eyes filled with anger and hate
At this terrible thing they had done.
A true Newfoundlander he felt t’was too late,
And he mourned as if losing a son.
He first lit a candle then he pulled down the blinds,
And he placed some black crepe on the door.
He looked somber and sad in his black suit and hat,
And the black satin armbands he wore.
He was eighty years old but he climbed up the hill
To the church with it’s steeple and bell.
His eyes filled with tears as his hands gripped the rope,
And he softly tolled the death knell.
There wasn’t a coffin, a body or grave,
The dying was all in his mind.
This joining with Canada wasn’t for him,
A patriot true to his kind.
I was only a “gaffer” but I still recall
How his voice rang with passion and pride.
“You have sold out your birthright,
You’ve let down the flag
That your forefathers fought for and died.
That up-along bunch will be down here in droves,
They’ll force you to flee from your home,
There’ll be taxes on this, there’ll be taxes on that,
And you won’t have a thing of your own.
They’ll tear up the countryside, take all the land,
They’ll catch all the fish in the bay.
You won’t be allowed to have horses and cows
Unless you are willing to pay.
They have filled you with promises, all of them lies,
They say there is nothing you’ll lack,
They’ll give you the Bonus, the Pension and such,
And with taxes they’ll take it all back.
They got you to thinking the skies will be blue,
And the sun won’t again fail to shine,
But you’ll have second thoughts when this land of your birth
Is alive with corruption and crime.
You’ll have a new anthem,
you’ll have a new flag,
They’ll watch what you write, say and do.
T’will be everything Ottawa, nothing St. John’s.
Mark my words what I’m saying is true.
That Smallwood’s a traitor and you’ll see the day
When the people will stand up and shout
That he’s not worth the powder to blow him to hell,
And his friends will be kicking him out.”
But nobody heeded what Grandfather said
And nobody heeded his tears.
They called him a babbling, senile old man
Who was exaggerating his fears.
They all went their way with a smile in their hearts,
Hoping only good fortune would fall.
But I wondered in time would they look back and say:
“Wasn’t Grandfather right after all?”
1) seem to find it difficult to handle a simple exchange of views, especially since it one that involves challenging your core beliefs.
what lead you too that conclusion "EDDY"
2)the post by Myles included a fundamentally silly contention on Canada Day and the dates at which things were established.
in your mind only.were you have shown us several times there is no reasoning with .
3)on top of that you cannot even reveal your identity. It seems passing strange you accuse others of having a hidden agenda and yet consistently hide your own.
spaeking of which I have told you several times to come over and talk to me.When are yo ready to give me the name of the federal agenceyy that contacted you into monitoring this blog
4)anyone reading this should appreciate that you and your colelagues represent a very small group.
good things come in small packages.
5)You do not speak for the hundreds of thousand of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians who are proud of where they are from
i am fully aware and have stated several times that I speak for myself and myslef alone.And who appointed you the gaurdian of the great people of Newfoundland and Labrador,Gerry Ried!!HA HA
6)They don't need to make things up, as you and your colleagues do
I have not fabricated one word .I have only given what I feel in my heart is the truth .I am fully aware "EDDY" that you or your liberial den ,do not share my views ,nor do I really care,so your point is ???????
7)They do not need to twist and distort.
"EDDY' this is were we break out the Lie-Detector and ZAP "EDDY".Now "EDDY" just because in "YOUR OWN MIND" you feel you hasve the answers to all the Provinces problems ,does not mean that they are factual.I myself have caught you several times fabricating your version of the truth.
The arrogance that spews from your person is very offensive in nature .Good luck trying to be popular on the rock.
Eddy popular, now that's a joke.
I like how he says to Miles "Your comment is misleading in the extreme and is based on a blatant - and now presumably knowing - misrepresentation"
Coming from the king of half truths and misrempresentations that's almost a compliment. Maybe, if Miles intentionally didnt' mention Dominon day, I'm not saying he did, but IF he did, maybe its because he has learned from 3 regular posters on this blog.
Theres not a single like in the commentary he published and for Eddy of all people to claim someone is misrepresenting the truth is the biggest joke of all.
Go to it Eddy, you excuse for a NLer. Tell your federal handlers and Liberal paymasters you tried your best. Who knows, maybe they'll give you a raise so you can buy some Exxon stock and find even more reason to undermine your own people.
good point Anon.
By the way Ed Hollett, I've read some of your comments and responses and it seems to me that you don't like answering direct questions with simple and direct answers, a typical political trait, but I'll try anyway.
Why don't you answer these easy to understand questions:
1) do you work for or are you contracted by any political party, member or movement?
2) Do you, or anyone in your immediate family have financial interests of any kind in the oil industry or business interest that benefits from the oil industry's activities in the province? (stock, business interests, etc.)
3) Are you a card carrying member of the Liberal party?
4) Is there any current or potential future financial gain for you in taking the public stand you do on issues discussed here?
Come on Ed, when a stock analyst talks publicly about public companies they have to tell whether or not they own the stock. It's the least you can do.
Those questions have been asked and answered repeatedly, homeward.
But if you'd care to identify yourself and disclose all your interests, partisan and otherwise, I'd be happy to repeat the answers again.
The problem for a lot of people here is that they have nothing else to counter my arguments.
Instead they must claim repeatedly - and without any evidence at all - that I am behaving unethically or in any other way unscrupulously.
Try dealing with the issues, and have the integrity to identify yourself.
"Canada had truly been a multi-cultural and fair society, would they have chosen July 1 (one of our most solemn days) as a day of official nation wide celebration?"
Patriot:
Your very question is framed in a way that makes it clear you are deliberately attempting to misrepresent events.
The only way - and I repeat only way - your claim has any basis is if Canada's national holiday was created after 1949 and irrespective of what it was called.
Your premise is completely preposterous and hence your conclusion is preosterous.
Before 1982, July 1 was established in Canada Day was called Dominion Day, Canada's national holiday. It was established in 1879 as the national holiday celebrating Confederation in 1867. In 1982, the name changed.
The rest of your comment now merely reveals that you have no substance and can only hurl unsubstantiated personal insults at me.
My blog is called Sir Robert Bond Papers. I claimed one other unclaimed URL, "Newfoundland and Labrador defence League" (that's the one that likely really gets up your nose). I also looked to claim The New Barrelman but it had already been staked by someone else. I simply created a variation on the name. Neither is active.
Ultimately though, the only thing you have is bluster and a rather childish "mine is bigger than yours". At least my traffic figures are indicated at the footer of Bond Papers. Yours are invisible, just like most the people who comment here.
Blah Blah Blah, Ed you're still a pig and scum sucking federalist. Oh yes, you're also an a$$hole.
I visited my favourite breakfast haunt this morning and had breakfast with a group that I frequent that particular restaurant with at least twice a week. We read the Newspapers and get to discuss some of the news stories of the day.
One of my colleagues in our group invited a guest along today whom I had never met. We were talking about the whole economic structure of Canada and how each province is treated; the special guest piped up and said that British Columbia was very happy lately in Canada.
I said to him that, if Newfoundland and Labrador had been treated as well as British Columbia has been over the past 15 or 20 years, I am sure this province would be as happy as well.
I recounted for him that British Columbia has had a lot of injections of Federal monies into its economy for some time now.
Ottawa spent hundreds of millions on Trade Missions to Asia back ten or more years ago to capture some of the business that would result leaving Hong Kong for other destinations after its lease with Britain was up in 1997 and it was ceded back to China. These Trade Missions were very profitable for British Columbia, which resulted in Billions of dollars being capptured and injected into the B.C Economy by those Asians who sought refuge out of Hong Kong as a safe investment haven for their fortunes, as they weren't sure what China had in store for them. British Columbia is now known as the Pacific Gateway Province and it is booming. Also Ottawa injected $700 million dollars for the upcoming Olympics and a few years back it provided money for the World Fair that took place in Vancouver. These are but some of a few things that Ottawa did for British Columbia. With these types of injections of funds into British Columbia's economy that have panned out very well for B.C, is it little wonder that they aren't happy? Any province with that type of attention devoted would be on cloud nine.
Then, of course, there is the regular high paying Federal Regional Offices and Military Bases, etc. that buoy up B.Cs economy.
With those types of Federal injections, Newfoundlanders and Labradorians would be singing from the hilltops as well.
This whole thread takes the cake. The latest conspiracy is that "Canada has stolen July 1 from Newfoundland". Get over it - it is a coincidence only, not a conspiracy. If you don't like Canada, I suggest finding somewhere else to live. What a bunch of whiners. What's next? When this country bans trans fats it will be a deliberate slag against the provincial collective right to poison one's self with traditional food - right?
babe in boyland said...
babe ,i would like to say that it is very nice having a conversion with you on this Blog and "YES" i would tend to agree with you on your posts .
Its the people of our great home that make me so "PROUD" to call myslf a Newfoundladner.And besides all that ,
Have a Great long Week-end ,and Pass the Dirty Ol'Rum Bottle Please,: )!!!whoo hoo its Friday!!!
OH One last thing,starrigan buddy ,leave "EDDY" alone C'mon and have a drink Buddy ,its Friday and the week is done!!!Have a great Long week-end folks!!!
At 12 ,I will play Ode to Newfoundland ,and then im going to have a drink of "RUM"and RAISE My familys flag and say THANK-YOU to all those that gave thier lives for my nations freedom.
GOD BLESS NEWFOUNDLAND AND LABRADOR!!!
That's nice of you.
It's also historically inaccurate.
The many Labrador boys who served in the RNR didn't have any freedoms to defend. You, Newfoundlanders, never even gave us the vote while you had Responsible Government or were a Dominion. It was the unelected Commission which finally did that.
Don't ask me to mourn for a nation and a freedom my ancestors never had.
The point is that having accepted (or forced) NL into confederation, depending on your view, Canada had truly been a multi-cultural and fair society, would they have chosen July 1 (one of our most solemn days) as a day of official nation wide celebration?
It had already been chosen, long before Beaumont-Hamel ever happened.
For someone who wants us to remember history, you're having trouble with the concept. Your posts on this subject are a textbook case definition of ahistorical.
Patriot:
Not everythign is about Newfoundland. Not everything is a "slap in the face" to Newfoundland.
Go out and celebrate Canada Day and stop being such a big whiny jerk.
Then, of course, there is the regular high paying Federal Regional Offices and Military Bases, etc. that buoy up B.Cs economy.
The federal government is actually a much smaller force in the BC economy than it is in that of Newfoundland and Labrador.
About 3% of personal income in NL is earned in the form of federal government wages, compared to 1.8% in B.C. 2.3% for Canada as a whole, 2.4% in Ontario, and 2.0% in Quebec.
And whoa! As a share of EMPLOYMENT income (excluding non-employment personal income), the federal payroll in NL accounts for 4.8% of the total. That's the fourth-highest percentage of ANY Province, well ahead of B.C., which is in ninth place — that's second-last among the provinces — with 2.8%. Again, the federal payroll, as a share of the total employment income of the people of the province, is larger in NL than it is in Canada as a whole (3.4%), Ontario (3.6%) or Quebec (3.1%).
Wally your nothing more than a pompous little a$$. You would probably be tickled pink (less the white and green) if there was a terrorist incident on the island portion of the province.
The Federal Government has never given Newfoundland and Labrador $700 million to stage the Olympics, or millions of dollars for a World Fair. Neither did the Feds stage International Trade Missions to Asia to bring back wealthy Asians for the province of Newfoundland and Labrador like they did to create micro economies that are worth billions to the B.C. Economy. The housing market alone in B.C. has gotten a big shop in the arm from the wealthy Asian immigrants who came from Hong Kong. And, of course, we cannot forget the large Indian population of immigrants who were assisted over the years by the Feds to settle in British Columbia.
The Feds did not contribute a billion dollars or more for an Atlantic Gateway since one doesn't exist at the moment anywhere, as the Feds have done for the Pacific Gateway in British Columbia. Neither have the Feds placed a Military Base here as it has done in British Columbia. I am going to endeavour to see how many Federal Regional Offices exist in British Columbia. I know there is ZERO in Newfoundland and Labrador.
Just today on CBC National news I heard that British Columbia was asking the Feds for$1 billion dollars to stop the erosion of salaries for the Pacific Gateway.
You, Newfoundlanders, never even gave us the vote while you had Responsible Government or were a Dominion.
The federal governement seems to like this one the best .If canada can be divided ,well I guess so can your province.
This coming froma federalist that works in Ottawa,now thats class wally.The true face of canada is shining tonight guys .
I dont here to many moderate voices in this forum now do i
Republican, I'll be having a drink of Screech on July 1st, but there'll be no Canadian flags flying.
I would even offer Ed a shot but he'd probably turn to dust if the Screech ever hit his lips. But then again who would ever want to see good Screech go to waste.
You would probably be tickled pink (less the white and green) if there was a terrorist incident on the island portion of the province.
Sign your name to that, you anonymous cowardly slimebag. Your mother did something wrong raising you.
The Federal Government has never given Newfoundland and Labrador $700 million to stage the Olympics, or millions of dollars for a World Fair.
The federal government hasn't spent 90 cents to a 10-cent provincial share on highways in Quebec or Ontario. The federal government doesn't give "hail compensation" to wheat farmers under a program that has no contribution from the recipients of the payments. What's your point?
Neither did the Feds stage International Trade Missions to Asia to bring back wealthy Asians for the province of Newfoundland and Labrador like they did to create micro economies that are worth billions to the B.C. Economy.
"Micro economies"?
Tell me, what's been the payoff from Danny Williams' interminable "trade missions" to Ireland or Nunavut?
Neither have the Feds placed a Military Base here as it has done in British Columbia.
"The feds" were placing military bases in NL even before NL was part of Canada.
I am going to endeavour to see how many Federal Regional Offices exist in British Columbia. I know there is ZERO in Newfoundland and Labrador.
Zero?
Not one?
You sure about that?
Just today on CBC National news I heard that British Columbia was asking the Feds for$1 billion dollars
What does British Columbia ASKING for money tell us about the behaviour of the federal government? If you asked your mother for a chocolate bar, that says more about you than it does about your mother.
The federal governement seems to like this one the best .If canada can be divided ,well I guess so can your province.
Yip. So can any province.
This coming froma federalist that works in Ottawa,now thats class wally.The true face of canada is shining tonight guys.
What's classless about pointing out the historical fact that, as an independent colony/nation, Newfoundlanders NEVER gave Labradorians the vote? It's a fact. Are you ashamed of that history? You should be.
Places in British Columbia where there are Military Installations.\
1. Aldergrove, B.C
2. Comox, B.C
3. Chilliwack, B.C
4. Esqiomalt, B.C
5. Masset, B.C.
How can a systems analyst be so ignorant.
The article below appeared on the Globe and Mail. It was authored by Michael Temeline of Memorial University of Newfoundland and Labrador.
The Rock's new-found nationalism
It's easy to write off the province's grievances, but there's good reason why the word 'secession' is being heard
MICHAEL TEMELINI
From Friday's Globe and Mail
June 29, 2007 at 6:29 AM EDT
Let's face it, in the dispute over the Atlantic Accord and equalization, it's hard to take seriously the position of Newfoundland and Labrador. It's easy to dismiss Danny Williams's behaviour as grandstanding or greed. Columnist Derek DeCloet described the Premier's equalization policy as a "popular stunt" and his government's demand for 5-per-cent public ownership in offshore oil projects as a "Danny Chavez routine." On the Atlantic Accord, this newspaper's editorial warned: "The mice should be careful not to bite off more than the country will let them chew."
The problem with superficial commentaries is that they underestimate the sincerity of popular opposition to federal policies. More critically, they fail to appreciate the authenticity of resurgent Newfoundland nationalism.
If we want a federalism based on just and fair principles, we need to start by taking this nationalism seriously - not as opportunism, but as an authentic form of patriotism aimed at progressive social improvement. Recognizing that Newfoundland clearly constitutes a national minority opens our eyes to the legitimacy of its various historical demands for self-determination and special status. Justice entails addressing historic grievances, not cleverly avoiding them.
Many Newfoundlanders, and I'm referring to those on the island, not in Labrador, are genuinely fed up with Canada. In letters to the editor, call-in shows and editorial columns, some have even suggested secession. But this is not Quebec (or Scotland). There are no popular political organizations actively promoting such strategies, at least not yet. Newfoundland nationalism is expressed in unique music, literature, art, and theatre, and finds its voice in provincial politics. Newfoundlanders regard their House of Assembly with more relevance than the Parliament of Canada as the guardian of national interest. The fullest expression of national self-determination is not based on language and culture, as in Quebec, but on resource ownership and control.
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Some might be tempted to dismiss this as copycat nationalism, in light of the federal government's recognition of the Québécois nation. But this would be a profound ignorance of history. Several hundred years before incorporation into Canada, Newfoundland was a functioning European settler society with a distinct language and culture, within clearly defined borders, laws and institutions. The capital, St. John's, was founded in 1583, when Sir Humphrey Gilbert claimed the area under the Royal Charter of Queen Elizabeth I.
Its first civil court was established in 1791, and its first chief justice was appointed in 1792. A system of governors was established in 1729, the first popularly elected legislative assembly convened in 1832, and responsible government was achieved in 1855. From that date, Newfoundland was essentially a country and, except for the power to sign international treaties, it exercised all the normal powers of sovereignty that Canada did, including self-defence and the issuing of postage and legal tender. There's even a national anthem - the beloved Ode to Newfoundland - that is regularly performed at official ceremonies and still moves some to tears.
This long independent history profoundly influences Newfoundlanders' popular self-understanding. Many older citizens who were born in the Dominion of Newfoundland (and an increasing number of younger ones who were not) still lament the loss of their historic state. Refusing to see themselves as a region, "Atlantic" Canada and the neighbouring "Maritime" identity have no resonance. But Newfoundland nationalism is not a sentimental longing for a bygone era. Many are deeply disillusioned with Confederation, and have serious concerns about the province's steady economic decline since joining. In fact, there is compelling evidence that the billions of resource-based profits exported every year far exceed the net income received by federal transfer payments.
Another explanation for resurgent nationalism are the ominous demographic challenges. Unlike elsewhere in Canada, the 2006 census revealed that Newfoundland is slowly disappearing. Since the 1990s cod moratorium, 11 per cent of the population of just over half a million people has emigrated - 63,000 people. Dozens of historic outport communities are vanishing. This would be comparable to an exodus of more than a million people from Ontario. Imagine if the cities of Windsor, London, Kitchener, Sudbury and Thunder Bay began to disappear off the face of the map. Even more disturbing, the death rate has surpassed the birth rate. If these trends continue, very few people will be living outside the Labrador mining towns and the greater St. John's metropolitan area. We are witnessing an entire generation without hope, enthusiasm and access to meaningful, steady employment.
In this respect, many Newfoundlanders share the long-standing Québécois fear of disappearing and the historic struggle for survival. This is the motivation for special status under the equalization program. This need, not greed, explains the overwhelming consensus for the Atlantic Accord. It explains why this government, more than any other in Canada, has pursued public ownership and control over natural resources.
This is not to say that depopulation and economic decline are entirely Canada's fault. But Canadians and their governments do bear significant responsibility for siphoning off Newfoundland's wealth. Federal and provincial governments have refused either to recognize or help solve the province's economic and demographic crisis, and have offered no clear vision or assistance to address these problems. It seems that Canadians simply do not know, or care, that this 500-year-old civilization is disappearing.
This is the context in which the current demand for control over resources must be understood. Rather than seeing it as a money grab, this dispute must be understood as a golden opportunity to undo historic wrongs, and as an authentic desire for cultural survival and self-determination.
Comments posted in Globe and Mail on article above
Commentary
The Rock's new-found nationalism
MICHAEL TEMELINI
From Friday's Globe and Mail
Latest comment posted at 11:24 PM EDT 29/06/07
It's easy to write off the province's grievances, but there's good reason why the word 'secession' is being heard ...Read the full article
This conversation is semi-moderated What is moderation? | How do I report a comment?
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Dennis Rice from St. John's, Canada writes: While I disagree with the assertion that the term 'Atlantic Canada' has "no resonance", I think Dr. Temelini has made some good points. Do I expect anybody outside our provincial borders to care? Aside from the 63,000 displaced Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, not really.
Posted 29/06/07 at 12:32 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Kathy H from Canada writes: As one of Dennis' displaced Newfoundlanders, I do care.
However, I think Dr. Temelini needs to venture outside of St. John's. He says "Many Newfoundlanders, and I'm referring to those on the island, not in Labrador, are genuinely fed up with Canada. ". Most of this "nationalism" is found in the bars of St. John's and I'm guessing with "come from away" academics at MUN.
When the government ran a survey on that "republic of newfoundland" flag , it found that most people in Nfld didn't give a hoot about it.
Posted 29/06/07 at 1:31 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Christopher Kiely from Canada writes: Canada is the best country in the world. Unfortunately our government and many of our citizens are beginning to forget that.
We need to all get over our regional biases and start working for a better Canada as a whole. I believe this country is worth fighting for, but regional or partisan bickering is tearing it apart. The pessimist in me questions the roll of our government, (current and past) in this fracturing of the Canadian identity. "Divide and Conquer" as they say.
Posted 29/06/07 at 1:38 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Stan Bladams from Bedford, Canada writes: WAIT, don't separate. Consider this.....encourage NS, PEI, NB & Quebec to join with you and separate. All central and western Canadians do is b**ch about those provinces anyways...yet if you look at the easterners per capita resource base relative to that of the rest of Canada they'd be quite well off....especially if they weren't sending resource revenues to Ottawa. Eastern Canada & Quebec should unite and become a separate country....let Upper and Western Canada sort out their own issues. Oh, ya, they can come up with their own name too.....
Posted 29/06/07 at 1:44 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
johns hopkins from Canada writes: A national identity based on control of resources (as claimed in this piece) is no national identity at all. It would be like claiming Ontario's "national identity" is contingent on the automotive industry. It's an absurd claim to make.
If towns disappear from Nfld., it will be no great loss. The whole course of human history is marked by migration from one place to another. There is no reason to think that Newfoundland "deserves" to continue to exist any more than the Roman Empire, the Aztecs or any number of great civilizations. If people choose to live on the rock, great. If not, great. It makes no iota of difference.
The Canada of today bears little resemblance to that of 1867. The pattern of living todays bears even less resemblance to that of pre-colonial times. I fail to see why people are getting their knickers in a twist that the shape of Canada and its people continues to change. It is no more intrinsically important to have a million people living in Nfld than it is in Nunavut. It does not matter.
Posted 29/06/07 at 1:45 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Craig Scott from Republic of Newfoundland,, Canada writes: How did this guy get a column in the globe and mail? I was pretty shocked when I read it and realized that it was not the usual rant that is so often in these pages about us being lazy and beggers.
Some may thing that nationalism is not that prevelant in Newfoundland but I see it every day. Not just in older people but younger educated people that understand the issues and grasp just how bad things have become for us down here.
When they introduced the Cod Moritorium in 1992 it was the single largest layoff in Canadian history putting 40,000 Newfoundlanders out of work. That is almost 10% of our population and I suspect maybe 30% of our workforce at the time.
15 years since they did that and the stocks have not recovered and a way of life once practiced by generations of newfoundlanders went by the way side.
Many young people don't have first hand experience with this but they most surely know someone who has and the injustice that was done to the cod fishery is surely soemthing that we will not get over any time soon.
This is why we need to control our resources because the Federal Government has shown in the past they are incapable of doing it and we can't trust them.
Posted 29/06/07 at 1:53 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Craig Scott from Republic of Newfoundland,, Canada writes: johns hopkins from Canada................I fail to see why people are getting their knickers in a twist that the shape of Canada and its people continues to change. It is no more intrinsically important to have a million people living in Nfld than it is in Nunavut. It does not matter.......... The reason you fail to see the problem is because many people in this country have no sense of identity. Ontarion doesn't have the history or deep rooted culture that we have down here that is why those people don't understand. Our culture and customs have been pretty sheltered over the years and have not been eroded by the melting pot of Canada. That is why Canadians have a hard time trying to idnetify them selves and what makes them Canadian. People in other areas of the country have a much easier time defining who they are, and especialy in Newfoundland we know who we are as a people and we are proud of it. Ask your self what does it mean to be a Canadian and see what the first thing that comes to your head is.......additionally ask yourself what it means to be an Ontarian, or Albertan or Quebecker...........Chances are the only one that could come up with a definate answer would be a Quebecker...like us they know who they are and are proud of their customs and culture.
Posted 29/06/07 at 2:01 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
t m from Canada writes: nope, it's greed.....
Posted 29/06/07 at 2:07 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Tom Fry from Calgary, Canada writes: When Newfoundlanders were deciding 60 years ago whether to join Canada, the unfortunate truth was that it was incapable of continuing as an independent nation. It doesn't matter in the overall picture whether this was because of the actions of people and nations outside of Newfoundland, or because of some self-inflicted damage to its economy - the fact is, The Rock was broke.
One of the selling factors used by the pro-Confederation group was that, if they joined Canada, they'd be eligible for the "baby bonus". This was a social program that Newfoundland itself was clearly not able to provide to its own families. It's one of the indications that Newfoundlanders expected that, because it was a relatively poor dominion joining a relatively prosperous country, it would be getting more out of the federation than it could contribute, for some period at least.
Whether they envisioned this dependency to continue indefinitely is anybody's guess.
Posted 29/06/07 at 2:15 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Shawn Bull from Canada writes:
I would have no problem if NFLD left the confederation.
Posted 29/06/07 at 2:27 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Tom Fry from Calgary, Canada writes: Our friend from the Republic of Newfoundland sez: "Our culture and customs have been pretty sheltered over the years and have not been eroded by the melting pot of Canada." ------------------------ Not certain if that's meant to be a boast or a complaint. I live in Alberta. I wasn't born there - I grew up in a rural area in BC where opportunities were fairly limited. Ironically, my father was born in Alberta, but he left in 1948 because he didn't see a whole lot of opportunity :) Of the 160 people in my high school graduating class back in 1970, perhaps 30 are still living in the area, and that includes some who moved back to coast down into retirement. It's a nice place to live if you don't have to find work. So, confronted by a lack of opportunity where I was, I moved to where there WAS some opportunity. Let's call this the "western approach". If I used the "eastern approach", on the other hand, I'd stay where I was born, work when I could, and collect pogey when I couldn't find any work. It's nice to be part of a distinctive culture, but not so nice to be trapped in that culture to the point that you can't imagine leaving. If "keep my culture" equates to "live on pogey", then you should consider moving.
Posted 29/06/07 at 2:28 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
D. Grant W from Saskatoon, Canada writes: Gee, maybe we should give Newfoundland back to the Beothuk Indians- they had language, culture, resources and dancing even before 1583. If Newfoundland secession is based on a mere 370 years of European settlement, surely the Beothuk claim of thousands of years would have precedent over that? Oh, never mind, there aren't any Beothuk Indians. Maybe that is the lesson, you must annihilate those who come before you in order to put any future claims to rest.
If our only relevant claim to independence is "what we want, and what we used to have" I think we have a more serious problem than resource royalties. And that goes for Basques, Quebec, The West, Scotland and on and on. Let's move ahead and retire the past. Our notions of belonging and citizenship are antiquated, perhaps we should look at what onus of responsibility we owe to other Canadians, and other citizens of the world as PEOPLE and not as citizens, rather than what they "owe" us. Perhaps a more cooperative approach would be in order.
Posted 29/06/07 at 2:28 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
dwight tanner from Vancouver, Canada writes: Many Canadian provinces have had their moments in the economic sun, but those moments tend to be finite in length. The age of oil will pass for Nfld. and Alberta and the middle east as well. The real advantages of being part of a larger portfolio of economic activities is that one lowers risk through diversification.
As for population shifts, they are natural, as labour is a mobile factor of production. Simply put, people go to where the jobs are and prepare themselves to work in the activities where work is available.
Posted 29/06/07 at 2:30 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Christopher Kiely from Canada writes: Stan Bladams from Bedford, Canada writes: WAIT, don't separate. Consider this.....encourage NS, PEI, NB & Quebec to join with you and separate. All central and western Canadians do is b**ch about those provinces anyways...yet if you look at the easterners per capita resource base relative to that of the rest of Canada they'd be quite well off....especially if they weren't sending resource revenues to Ottawa. Eastern Canada & Quebec should unite and become a separate country....let Upper and Western Canada sort out their own issues. Oh, ya, they can come up with their own name too..... *See there it is! This is the attitude that will destroy this country.* The majority of central and western Canadians don't "b**ch" about eastern Canadian, that is a media (government?) fabrication. From what I see we all complain about the same thing... our Federal government. Sure there are the usual Quebec gets this, Ontario pays that, Alberta keeps all their's type BS, but those people are not the majority. This is a fantastic country from sea to sea to sea, made up of diverse provinces and communities and *we are stronger together*. What we need is a federal government accountable to all with an agenda for all regions of the country. We can get that if: 1. We all vote 2. We demand better from our representation
Posted 29/06/07 at 2:35 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Clark Kent from Canada writes: I thought this was about the wrestler.
Posted 29/06/07 at 2:49 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Micheal Holden from Switzerland writes: As an ex-pat newfoundlander in Switzerland, the most profound aspect of moving here is the fact that Europeans have no pre-conceptions towards Newfoundland, Terre Neuve, Terra Nova as they don't know much about the place. I never encountered slags about my dialect, no Newf** jokes, no comments about being poor, lazy drunken welfare cases. Since living in Switzerland I have brought many European's on tours of Newfoundland spending two to three weeks on the island. Whether they are Swiss, Italian, Irish or English, all of them have left NF longing for more. Europeans fully appreciate our culture - and see everything special about the place. They see the distinct differences from the other provinces and know they are not on the mainland. They also fully understand our frustration since joining Canada. We Newfoundlanders need to shift our focus to Europe as we are more like Europeans than Canadians. If only every Newfoundlander could experience being in a place where all cultures are respected instead of having to migrate to places where culture is measured by urban sprawl, strip malls and fast food outlets.
Posted 29/06/07 at 2:54 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
J Luft from Calgary, Canada writes: Christopher Kiely says "Canada is the best country in the world. Unfortunately our government and many of our citizens are beginning to forget that.
We need to all get over our regional biases and start working for a better Canada as a whole. I believe this country is worth fighting for, but regional or partisan bickering is tearing it apart. "
Spoken like a true centrist Liberal. It isn't about "regional or partisan bickering" tearing the country apart, rather the problem is simply that the paternalistic model of Canada being governed by the centre is out-dated. Much like a family where kids are becoming adults, the kids need to have their own autonomy and will no longer be dictated to. Of course along with that autonomy comes new responsibilities that they must be prepared to take on. Under the centrally controlled Liberal model of Canada, certain areas of the country have historically ceded their provincial rights to the feds for what is essentially welfare.
I have had the great pleasure of visiting Newfoundland and I support their desire to chart their path. This stirring in Newfoundland is simply an awakening of the desire of a province to no longer be dictated to in the centrally controlled Liberal model of Canada.
Posted 29/06/07 at 2:57 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Keith shanahan from Calgary, Canada writes: It's always disappointing to see still another province taking on a victim mentality and demanding special status. My native province of Quebec has only hurt itself with its pathetic buck passing on its own failures.
My attitude on any province wanting out is: observe the Clarity Act and don't let the door hit you on the way out. If you don't have the votes, maybe your neighbors are smarter than you think. We need winners, not whiners.
Posted 29/06/07 at 3:01 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
tl best from the end of the world, Canada writes: Stan...good idea.....take your 200 billion in debt as well, and the rest of us " Upper " canadians can stop sending billions of dollars to every year you so you can have hospitals and schools......nice try my brothers in Newfoundland, but you relay way more on our handouts that we do on your labour......
Posted 29/06/07 at 3:04 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Chris Tucker from Nfld.-on- the- Rideau, Canada writes: As a pre-confederation born Nfld'er who left the Rock to find (very satisfying) employment and expanded horizons many years ago, I am bemused by the comments so far. I am inclined to sing a chorus of " Our eyes to the Atlantic, our backs to the Gulf. Come near at your peril Canadian wolf.", just to provoke, but I won't. The trouble with this joke of a country we call Canada, is that we have never matured in virtually any of our constituent parts to form a cohesive whole (who do we blame, but ourselves?). We spend more self-destructive time arguing over our petty regional issues (you, too, Ontario, Alberta, BC, etc.) than we do figuring out how we fit /help in the great scheme of things on this mucked-up planet. If we had a political class who was less interested in building bridges to nowhere and more inclined in helping its citizens integrate in a cohesive way with the rest of this dynamic plant, it would be a big help. If the Brits are a nation of shop keepers, we are a nation of moaners and complainers. Come on Canadians - stop being the world's cantankerous, wealthy old nanny (as a collective), and get on with life. Perhaps it would do all 33.4 million of us some good to get off our collective buts and go live in, for example, Sudan or Chechnya for a period of time to sharpen our focus. Come to think, of it a couple of months in Resolute (Dec.- Jan) might also not be a bad idea. Happy Canada Day????
Posted 29/06/07 at 3:07 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Vince Porter from Canada writes: Johns Hopkins and Dwight Tanner, I'm with you. Though The Rock is bred in my bones, I realize that what is happening is part of the constant and continual movement of people and civilizations as they follow change and opportunity.Fortunately, Newfoundlanders have recognized that, and have moved, in their many thousands to Boston, Toronto, and, lately, Alberta. Not unlike the millions who have left Pittsberg, Philadelphia, etc. in the last four decades. Unfortunately, Newfoundland has a 'vibrant cultural community', whose very existence is built upon grievance, imaginary insult, mythical defiance of man and nature, and making the sun stand still. The more successful the mythmakers are at doing this, the more dysfunctional the society they seek to fossilize - aboriginal and Metis being the perfect examples. Life and opportunity is about getting on with it. While Newfoundland fiddlers and folksingers and academics conjure up mystical worlds and seek new dragons to slay, most of us, including my daughter, accept this great and irrevocable migration of people and opportunity, and simply get on with it. How is the weather in Red Deer today, Jennifer?
Posted 29/06/07 at 3:08 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
tl best from the end of the world, Canada writes: Chris T. good blog...your right on...we could all be in bagdad or darfour right now, ....think about that one....happy canada, everyone........
Posted 29/06/07 at 3:09 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Tim Boyle from Canada writes: My goodness here we go again. Another so called have-not province with a unique but tender (and threatened) culture turns out to be contributing more to Canada then they are receiving and needs Canada to give them more or they will surely perish and will likely have to separate. Other posters here have pointed out correctly that NFLD was an economic basket case when it joined Confederation, it's years of 'independence' blemished by the fact that a British commissioner had to be appointed (by Britain) to take over it's affairs because it could not manage on it's own. One must conclude from this article that in spite of NFLD joining Canada it's people did not become Canadians. Surely Mr. Temelini there is more to being a Canadian then having access to the Baby bonus, EI and equalization payments. If being Canadians means we should all share our wealth does it not also require that we share in responsibilities as well. Is it fair to expect the cultureless people of Ontario, Alberta or B.C. to support you and your culture economically when you distain them and denigh any common cause with them? While this academic polemic by Mr. Temelini lacks the fire and brimstone retoric of Mr. Williams, the state of mind is the same. It is the belief that Canada for little or no consideration owes NFLD alot and the conviction (implied if not stated) that if it is not paid NFLD will have to take it's riches and leave. That would be a sad but, dare I say, unlikely day.
Posted 29/06/07 at 3:11 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
guy grand from calgary, Canada writes: Please take Ontario and Quebec
Posted 29/06/07 at 3:14 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
mike mckendrick from Miramichi NB, Canada writes: As a fellow Atlantic Canadian I fully understand where Newfoundland is coming from. All they want is a chance to stand on their own two feet and become a contributing part of Canada. They feel that if they are given a chance, they can turn their province around, that Newfoundlanders from away can come back home to work. They want to contribute to Canada, they are proud Canadians as well as proud Newfoundlanders. Why would the Govt of Canada or people from other parts of Canada be against that? I guess it is easier to portray them as lazy, greedy bums then to try and understand where they are coming from. Newfoundland and the Maritimes have supplied the labour for the rest of Canada for generations. Is it wrong to want to stay home and work instead of always heading west? And I also applaud Danny Williams for wanting a peice of the Off-shore oil for Newfoundland. Look at Norway and their $250 billion fund from their share of North Sea oil. They are actually buying up profitible companies in Canada and around the world with their revenue. If only Canada had it's act together like that!!! If Canadians can't see that Newfoundland is a proud Canadian province that wants to contribute to Canada if it gets a chance then I wonder about the Future of Canada.
Posted 29/06/07 at 3:16 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
b benton from thornhill, Canada writes: It's time for newfoundland to stand with pride and become a have province and not keep begging/whining/wheedling for money that is needed elsewhere in this country.
Posted 29/06/07 at 3:23 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Clark Kent from Canada writes: Micheal Holden from Switzerland writes: "We Newfoundlanders need to shift our focus to Europe as we are more like Europeans than Canadians. If only every Newfoundlander could experience being in a place where all cultures are respected instead of having to migrate to places where culture is measured by urban sprawl, strip malls and fast food outlets."
This is fantasy. Europeans respecting other cultures more than Canadians? And you live in Switzerland... The irony is so sweet.
All of my European friends are much like me. So, I guess Ontarians are more like Europeans than Canadians too. And, having shown them Toronto, they yearn for more. A place where all cultures are respected (though, I do tell them no place is ideal). Of course, there is sprawl. But, I found sprawl in Europe too.
Hey, why don't we all join the EU and we can be one big happy family? Can I invite the US to come along?
Posted 29/06/07 at 3:25 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Steve Gibbons from Calgary, Canada writes: Once again, my fellow Calgarians rise to the occasion of being the most ignorant, useless, and rude participants to a discussion. Way to go Calgary, yahoo!
The sad thing is that these mental midgets are the vocal minority in a very intelligent vibrant city. You people are an embarrassment.
Posted 29/06/07 at 3:27 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Clark Kent from Canada writes: And, really, the only people I've known to joke about "Newfies" were all... Newfies. Perhaps other Maritimers. They bring it up.
Posted 29/06/07 at 3:27 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Joan Forsey from Toronto, Canada writes: Tom Fry of Calgary says when Newfoundland joined Canada it was incapable of continuing as an independent nation. Tom, you need to get your facts straight before you comment on Newfoundland. Newfoundland was in good shape when it joined -- NO debt! Canada wanted the territory (not the people, the territory). It was bad enough having a U.S. state (Alaska) on the west coast. Canadians couldn't bear even to contemplate having another U.S state -- at the very mouth of the St. Lawrence River! So all those working in Newfoundland for economic union with the U.S. were ignored, and Britain, in cahoots with Canada, decided not to put that option on the referendum ballot. Since then, Newfoundland has in effect been robbed of its fishery (the federal government took over management and mismanaged it to the extent that some species are virtually extinct). Newfoundland has in effect been robbed of its hydroelectricity resources -- to the tune of about $1.3 billion a year going to Quebec. And now it is in effect being robbed of the benefits of its offshore oil and gas resources -- which it brought with it into Confederation. (A Supreme Court ruling gave ownership to Canada, but Canada, presumably feeling guilty, later agreed that Newfoundland would be the 'principal beneficiary' -- an agreement that has not been honored.) How many other provinces have been robbed of their main resource industries? It is easy to understand why Newfoundlanders are upset. (Note to John Hopkins -- Just as upset as Ontarians would be if, as Dr. Temelini says, Windsor, London, Kitchener, Sudbury and Thunder Bay began to disappear.)
Posted 29/06/07 at 3:30 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
dean spence from bright old city, ontario, Canada writes: As a life long resident of Ontario, please allow me to write off your grievances. I've spent too much time listening to quebeckers, westerners and now newfoundlanders running their mouths about separation. Please go. Quickly. Or at least shut up.
Posted 29/06/07 at 3:52 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Stan Bladams from Bedford, Canada writes: Dean...it is SO nice to hear from someone in the Central Canadian heartland. You'd better hope that if the eastern provinces separate they don't insist on reparations for their resources which were traded away by the federal government.....fish to european nations with the agreement that they'd purchase manufactured goods from Ontario, raw mined materials for processing in Ontario and europe (as part of other trade agreements) to help manufacturing there, trees cut down to benefit the companies owned and headquartered (and therefore taxed) in Ontario. The economy in the Atlantic region has certainly struggled, but often that is because of trade rules biased against them to benefit central Canada (just look at the current softwood lumber agreement, done to garner votes in OTHER parts of Canada but which considerably costs east-coast lumber companies....for who the Americans apparently do NOT have issues with their stumpage fees). Lots of Ontarions don't know that though (I didn't, until I started reading about the history of the east coast). And, for the record, I'm from S. Ontario. Why, just how well *would* the Ontario economy do without "free" access to the eastern seaboard by ship? Or the westerners shipping their grain by ship? The Saint Lawrence isn't international waters you know....you'd have to pay extra I'm sure. Oh, to address the issue raised by someone else, the federal "debt" for which the east coast provinces is responsible is more than offset by their 'share' of the federal government assets in the rest of the country (buildings (particularly in Ontario, where most employment spending by the feds flows), military bases, etc.). Meanwhile, for their population base an Atlantic country (separated from Albertario) will having considerable forestry mining, hydroelectric and petroleum and gas resources.
Posted 29/06/07 at 4:24 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Christopher Kiely from Canada writes: J Luft from Calgary, Canada writes: Christopher Kiely says "Canada is the best country in the world. Unfortunately our government and many of our citizens are beginning to forget that.
We need to all get over our regional biases and start working for a better Canada as a whole. I believe this country is worth fighting for, but regional or partisan bickering is tearing it apart. "
Spoken like a true centrist Liberal.
Me... a "centrist liberal"???? FUNNY!!!!
You don't know me J Luft, so please don't pretend to know anything about me. Especially when it is simply an attempt to apply some BS partisan label.
I believe many posts here prove my point.
Posted 29/06/07 at 4:28 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
J Luft from Calgary, Canada writes: Christopher Kiely goes a bit catatonic in his comments "Spoken like a true centrist Liberal.
Me... a "centrist liberal"???? FUNNY!!!!
You don't know me J Luft, so please don't pretend to know anything about me. Especially when it is simply an attempt to apply some BS partisan label.
I believe many posts here prove my point. "
Christopher, if you aren't a centrist liberal then don't talk like one! Your comment that "I believe this country is worth fighting for, but regional or partisan bickering is tearing it apart" is precisely the type of language that the central control Liberals always use when they try to wrap themselves in the flag.
Posted 29/06/07 at 4:35 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Sam G from Toronto, Canada writes: I agree that Canada is the best country in the world, if we forget that its core industries (commodities and manufacturing) and running on American capital. How can our government be Canadian when it has to serve corporate interests? How can a country with a relatively small population sit on billions of dollars in EI funds without investing in development of its workforce and development of other industries (other than commodity-based ones and manufacturing)?
Compared to our industrialized neighbor in the South, Canada feels like a wasteland in which opportunities are pre-determined by dysfunctional governments and small-minded provincial thinking. Albertans are already thinking like Texans, Ontarians like to feel "British" and Quebec has its nose up in the air. You don't hear much from the Altlantic Provinces unless there is an oil platform dispute or from BC.
Both Quebec and NF would become wastelands if they separated from Canada (unless they attach themselves to overseas possessions of Britain and France - imagine that scenario - which would be frowned upon in the State Department because such move would not be liked/accepted by US investors).
Posted 29/06/07 at 4:38 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Red Ensign is our glory! Real Canadian pride! from Canada writes: so what? when quebec was serious about ditching canada, trudeau instated martial law. when ottawa hog tied alberta with the NEP, nothing came of it. when 7 out of ten provinces objected to the liberal's gun control bill of c-68, the feds just undemocratically inflicted it upon everyone anyways by using a stacked court and the 'rule' of law. now the rock is irritated with harper. so what? what are they gonna do about it? a big fat nothing is what. perhaps vote liberal next election, only to have the socialist regime steal even more of their money, and use the stacked courts and senate to back up their assertion that they can dictate exactly how newfoundland uses their resources and live their lives, while paying off their buddies. the Cons on the other hand gave them the option. stick with the old deal, or ditch it in favour of the new. just because the new deal is enticing and is only available should they ditch the old deal doesnt give them any real reason to complain. its simple, if you want the old deal, stick to it and quit whining, if you want the new then make the choice freely and be happy with it. otherwise screaching because you can't have it both ways -the liberal deal wasn't gonna let them have their cake and eat it either- when no one else can either is stupid and childish. making an issue when there wasn't one to begin with. the feds at no time said 'oh the old deal is off, and you can no longer opt for that'. quite contrary. they said 'you can stick to the old deal, or you can sign onto a newer and better deal.. its your free choice'.. wow! what a rip! may as well burn the flag and declare independance! too bad the liberals weren't so unfair when it came to stupid policies like the NEP or the gun registry. had they, their gunlaw would only be in effect in ontario and quebec, and alberta wouldnt have had to sell their oil for 2 decades at less than market value to ottawa. face it, the only provinces that can get it both ways, is ontario and quebec.
Posted 29/06/07 at 4:39 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Only Canadian from Canada writes: Big words from a province that has been on the take for 50 years. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Posted 29/06/07 at 4:42 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Jo Ingblat from Canada writes: Clearly J Luft's first loyalty is to the Republican Party of the USA. He's best ignored--which I'll start doing.......now!
Posted 29/06/07 at 4:49 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Wallace McLean from Rand McNally, Canada writes: Personally, I'd like to see just some of the "compelling evidence that the billions of resource-based profits exported every year far exceed the net income received by federal transfer payments." I'd also like to know the connection between those resource profits — are resource companies expected to run as not-for-profit charities or something? &8212; and federal transfer payments. I despair for MUN, and, after certain other pronouncements by certain other academics at that institution, I regret less and less the decisions I made to take my education elsewhere.
Posted 29/06/07 at 5:24 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Wallace McLean from Rand McNally, Canada writes: Micheal Holden, I never encountered "slags about my dialect, no Newf** jokes, no comments about being poor, lazy drunken welfare cases", etc., etc., either... and that's within Canada. On the other hand, the depth of Newfoundland ignorance about, and towards, Labrador, is pretty well unplumbed.
Posted 29/06/07 at 5:28 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Tom Fry from Calgary, Canada writes: Joan Forsey from Toronto, Canada writes: Tom Fry of Calgary says when Newfoundland joined Canada it was incapable of continuing as an independent nation. Tom, you need to get your facts straight before you comment on Newfoundland. Newfoundland was in good shape when it joined -- NO debt! -------------------------------- Well, that's an interesting read on history, but one that even Danny Williams might be embarrassed to use. Most hold to a more traditional reading of history - that the Alderdice government petitioned the British government to terminate self-governance and resume direct control from London, which in turn happened in 1934. The reason? Newfoundland was broke, and about to default on its debt. -------------------------- Ms Forsey is indeed correct in stating that there was some sentiment for joining with the US. Now, leaving aside the question of whether the Americans would want a state so culturally different from anything they'd ever seen before, we must remember that US states have significantly fewer powers than Canadian provinces, and they don't receive equalization payments ;)
Posted 29/06/07 at 5:39 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
J Luft from Calgary, Canada writes: Jo Ingblat says "Clearly J Luft's first loyalty is to the Republican Party of the USA. He's best ignored--which I'll start doing.......now!"
Like that's a real loss to me Jo. What a joke. It's people like you Jo that threaten the country. I guess you much prefer to dictate to people how they must live and what they must be like in order to be "Canadian". Spoken like a typical Ottawa Imperalist Leftwing Totalitarian Dictator. Quite frankly you make me puke.
Posted 29/06/07 at 6:09 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
NFLDER INCALI from United States writes: What I find unbelievable is the willingness of many from Ontario to encourage the eastern provinces to separate. Ontario is very highly subsidized in that Ontario's portion of the National Capital Region pays taxes - business, personal, GST, etc. to the province of Ontario. These billions of dollars in tax should be paid to the Government of Canada, for the benefit of all Canadians. The National Capital Region is just that - the Nation's Capital. These billions currently paid are also far more than the residents of Ottawa, Kanata, Kempville, etc. receive in services. This money goes to support Ontario, to the detriment of the rest of Canada, and creates a large imbalance in the national economy.
If Canada were ever to break up, Ontario would most probably end up with a similar economy to Michigan or upstate New York. This would be a great tragedy.
Posted 29/06/07 at 6:31 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Steve Gibbons from Calgary, Canada writes: You know its interesting that one discussion about a particular duistinct group is open for comments but discussions about another distinct group are disallowed for some unknown reason. This is despite the fact the latter group is flagrantly breaking the law.
Posted 29/06/07 at 6:32 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Alex Keuper from Carpinteria Santa Barbara CA, United States writes: ... just took the poll - will Canada see better days in the future? - Naturally YES. Why not? Healthy discussion (rather than gun violence) about money, power, identity etc. Mostly calm and collected thoughts, lots of passion, some good ideas, a few great ideas... this is the way a civil war is averted - talk, talk, talk, .... (plus a few cod tongue and skreech or some 50s!) Tabernak Canader!
Posted 29/06/07 at 7:00 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
FREE FROGGY from Mississauga, Canada writes: I would like to point out that despite being poor at the point of joining confederation the actual vote was very close around 1% diff. or thereabouts!
Half the people did not want confederation being destitute or otherwise!
Newfoundlands main source of jobs since joining Canada has been a job in Ontario or Alberta or the Military!
I would not be a bit surprised to find that the Rock has more trained military people than any other provence!
Joey Smallwood often referred to Newfoundland as being like a mistress! He would know because he did to the Rock very often what men so commonly do to their mistresses!
It's like Newfoundlanders were caught between the rock and a hard
whatever!
Newfoundlanders and Quebecers have more in common than they care to admit!
THEY BOTH HAVE VIBRANT CULTURES TO PROTECT!
In order to do this they need to garner wealth!
I feel multiculturalism is a failed venture - it is a neutering of the population!
Newfoundland like Quebec has finally awoken from it's long slumber and realizes that they can and will be a power not to be ignored and if Ottawa and the rest of Canada does ignore them it will be at a price!
You may find that the Rock is very hard place full of some very hard people!
Posted 29/06/07 at 7:01 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Tony Aristocles from Longview, Canada writes: Compared to the typical op-ed from senior reporters who ought to know better, this is good information and very good perspective. Good work, MICHAEL TEMELINI.
11% of the population has emigrated in the last two decades--I'm stunned! As good Canadians, we want all regions of Canada to be strong. Yes we do. Harper's uncaring towards NL makes him look like the cheapest of cheap scr*ews.
Posted 29/06/07 at 7:08 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
FREE FROGGY from Mississauga, Canada writes: Newfoundland has a future without bounds!
If they can shift the train of thought-get outside the box-be accepting of change they can master their own destiny!
Just one example--why be stuck trading in an east-west direction! It could develop more of a north-south shipping route!
They need to bring jobs into the area and keep their people at home!
They are not land-locked they have the world open to them-they could make it alone !
They should be taken seriously!
Posted 29/06/07 at 7:18 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
garlick toast from mill village, Canada writes: n.f.l.d. should "grow" their economy like b.c., start planting weed and legalize it.it's great for tourism and a real boost to the restaurent industry.
Posted 29/06/07 at 7:28 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Joan Forsey from Toronto, Canada writes: Tom Fry from Calgary: Newfoundland may have been broke in 1934 -- many places were at that time. But by 1949 the situation in Newfoundland was quite different -- thanks in large part to all those American bases. The war made a big difference. Look it up.
Posted 29/06/07 at 7:41 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Joan Forsey from Toronto, Canada writes: P.S. Tom Fry from Calgary: Actually, Danny Williams has made the point. Addressing the Economic Club of Toronto on May 3 this year, he said: "When we joined Confederation almost 58 years ago, we had cash in the bank, but our per-capita debt increased tenfold the very day we joined. We were a nation that had come through the war in good financial shape and abundant in natural resources. Since Confederation, things have changed."
Still, I urge you to look it up; see for yourself.
Posted 29/06/07 at 7:47 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
The Objectivist from overpopulated Toronto, Canada writes: I've been in Newfoundland, one end to the other. great place, great people; loved my time there and wish them the best. however i say adiós to any province with a negative fiscal exchange with Ottawa, sooner the better, esp when they start talking secession. we can still be friends.
Posted 29/06/07 at 8:36 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
ian hall from vancouver bc, Canada writes: I hope Danny boy is better at squid jiggin than his political acumen suggests.Yesterdays man trying to bring back yesterday.You seldom see a man so impressed by himself. The whole article smacks of a public relations analysis followed up by focus groups and resulting articles such as this. "You got to move wid dere times Danny"
Posted 29/06/07 at 8:36 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
garlick toast from mill village, Canada writes: hello joan forsey.would you be related to sen.eugene forsey?
Posted 29/06/07 at 8:37 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Tom Fry from c, Canada writes: Joan Forsey from Toronto, Canada writes: Tom Fry from Calgary: "Newfoundland may have been broke in 1934 -- many places were at that time." ----------------------------- Many places were indeed broke at that time. However, after the Alderdice government petitioned London to turn Newfoundland into a colony again, a Royal Commission was set up to investigate, and it concluded that the bankruptcy of Newfoundland was due, not to economic factors, but to the overwhelming culture of corruption that made fair, honest, or financially responsible government virtually impossible. (The full report of the Amulree Commission, which is quite fascinating, has been digitized and put on the web at www.heritage.nf.ca - look under "books and documents")
Posted 29/06/07 at 8:54 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
David Simon from Canada writes: Actually Newfoundlanders would be better off outside Canada. For decades Newfoundlanders have had the belief that the ROC has been stealing their resources. Outside of Canada they would find out whether that was true or not.
Posted 29/06/07 at 9:12 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Jo Geoghegan from Heart's Delight, Canada writes: Many aspects of regional alienation arise from our Canadian democracy deficit.
The Canadian senate should be elected and regional in representation.
The often mooted five region senate would form a good basis for a senate elected with popular representation from divisions one of which would include Newfoundland.
And yes! Of course the Province should have some ownership of the resource.
And yes! When it becomes self sufficent, it should support the others that support it as an economic basket case. That's federation.
And yes! It does have a distinct culture that is indigenous distinct and and not based on the nonsensical failed multicultural model espoused by craven politicians in Ontario and B.C..
There our Anglo Celtic heritage has been cruelly decimated as the proud Franco Ontario tradition thrives with official injections of cash and support, and the heritage of metro wide ghettos of Mesopotamian Wahabis are officially encouraged while our founding English, Ulster Scots, Welsh and Gaelic Irish traditions are officially ignored.
Get a grip folks . It may not yet be too late.
Posted 29/06/07 at 9:23 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
FREE FROGGY from Mississauga, Canada writes: We are going to separate and take Rick Mercer and Mary Walsh with us - so screw you!!
Posted 29/06/07 at 10:16 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
e guye from Canada writes: Many thoughtful comments, particularly enjoyed those of Dwight Tanner, Alberta and Vince Porter, Canada. Newfoundland is unique within Canada, as indeed is every other province. Perhaps because it's our only true 'island' province, Newfoundland has not intermingled with adjoining provinces, blurring identities and merging ideas and objectives to the extent that has happened across the country - with the possible exception of Quebec, which for ethnic reasons, and I would argue due to effects of religious domination, has stayed a bit outside main stream Canada. The bloodlines of Newfoundlanders, Scottish, Irish, English in the main, are found in every part of our country. But in Newfoundland I would argue they have stayed 'purer' due to its island state. I take exception to aspersions re 'welfare' - Newfoundlanders had good, healthy and enviable livlihoods and life styles for many years - with the death of the cod fishery its work force could not simply walk off the decks of fishing boats to the assembley lines in Ontario. Many fishermen, some very wealthy, had little formal education - they didn't need it, as youngster's they could take to the seas and earn good, honest money for good, honest sweat. They could provide well for their families, build their homes, live where they wanted, often in remote outposts, their preference. The island setting, thank God, preserved a Celtic culture that is reflected by world class music, musicians - Great Big Sea comes to mind. Newfoundlanders today are ill served by their Premier, Danny Williams - an arrogant pipsqueak of a man - a man with a lot of brains and little sense - he drives away economic opportunity and alienates potential political cooperation with insults and his own one-sided version of truth.
Posted 29/06/07 at 10:19 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Eric Kirkpatrick from Vancouver, B.C., Canada writes: My, this country does have a lot of the 'if I can't have it my way, I'm taking my toys and going home' types. Everybody blaming the other provinces and wanting to give nothing while taking all they can. For 140 years the population and economic centre of the nation has swayed and will continue. If your not in the centre getting 'your share' now, than move, this isn't Communist Russia, it's the finest country on Earth. You'd give the World just what it doesn't need, another country torn apart by ethnic/cultural civil war and if you don't think there'd be blood spilt, you living in Disneyland. The World needs more Canadas. Not more egocentric Separtists (Alberta or Quebec or Newfoundland & Labrador etc.).
Posted 29/06/07 at 10:24 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Wallace McLean from Rand McNally, Canada writes: Jo Geoghegan, when you say "Of course the Province should have some ownership of the resource." Guess what? IT DOES! Provinces control their resources. Provinces, and provinces alone, collect resource royalties. And the two coastal provinces with offshore oil and gas production collect those royalties as well. The federal government collects not one cent of royalties. The province's position WRT those resources is the same as if they were on land.... except that they've actually been treated more favourably thanks to the Atlantic Accords (the original ones).
And when you say "Anglo Celtic heritage has been cruelly decimated", you use the passive. "Cruelly decimated" by who? And is the province homogeneously "Anglo Celtic", whatever that is? And guess what — many of the nationalist-cum-separatist culture vultures in St. John's, who wave the PWG, are frequent recipients of "cash and support" of the same kind Franco Ontarians get.
"Mesopotamian Wahabis"? Wow. "Get a grip", indeed!
Posted 29/06/07 at 11:07 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Wallace McLean from Rand McNally, Canada writes: e guye, you say "Perhaps because it's our only true 'island' province, Newfoundland has not intermingled with adjoining provinces" ... Newfoundland is not a province. Newfoundland is an island. Newfoundland and Labrador is a province. Newfoundland and Labrador is not an island. Nearly 3/4 of the provincial landmass is Labrador. The lack of "intermingling" is a vice as much as a virtue; the rampant francophobia in many circles in Newfoundland has hindered the economic development of Labrador; official policy in Newfoundland for decades was to NOT build a highway connecting Quebec and Labrador for (unfounded) fear Labrador would somehow be "lost". A little mingling — a lot of mingling, actually &8212; would be a very good thing.
Posted 29/06/07 at 11:10 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
e guye from Canada writes: Wallace McLean from Rand McNally, Canada
You are quite right - by island I was not overlooking PEI, close to mainland, but referring to the relative remoteness of Newfoundland from the rest of Canada.
I know that Newfoundland and Labrador form the province - but again was speaking of the more traditional Newfoundland, not meaning to overlook the people or the vast area of Labrador.
I agree too that the lack of intermingling is not a positive factor, although with some positive results - but a factor nonetheless. I believe it has contributed to feelings of alienation now played upon by Danny Williams, to the detriment of all Canadians.
Posted 29/06/07 at 11:24 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
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good lord. this mess of commentary is overwhelming. only a scatter few phrases jump out:
"they both have vibrant cultures to protect" you dont have to protect a vibrant culture. if it IS vibrant it survives all on its own, without protection and in spite of attacks. culture is alive and because it is alive it changes. newfoundland culture does not look the same today as it did 50 or 150 or 250 years ago. if it did it would not be vibrant.
"newfoundland never gave labrador the vote". well, that really is a shame and a matter of regret. weve got to remember the bad along with the good. pre-confederation newfoundland was not a paradise. our weather was just as variable. our location was just as distant from sources and markets. our leaders had the same tendencies to heroism and corruption. our people were just as careless, bigoted and self-interested as anywhere else - which explains the immigration policy that excluded chinese and jews, the employment practice that had people in indentured servitude to fish merchants, the social environment that kept catholics and protestants from intermarrying or even getting EDUCATED together and the political policy that withheld the vote from women, landless men and labradorians.
until we can remember REALISTICALLY who we were and see REALISTICALLY who we are, we dont really love newfoundland and labrador, we just love somebodys facile, incomplete, golden age idea of newfoundland and labrador.
until we know ourselves for who we are and love ourselves for what we are, were never getting past this kind of longwinded bullshit. i guess longwinded bullshit is part of gaining self-knowledge, but it can be corrosive and divisive and it certainly is boring.
As Always babe ,you seem to be the voice of moderation is ths forum.
I do see your point ,and yes ,we should REALISTICALLY look at what kind f people that we were.
But ,can I ask you a question as a CANADAIN.
babe in boyland said...
"if it IS vibrant it survives all on its own, without protection and in spite of attacks."
Do you feel then that some acts that have been laid out by Ottawa to protect canadian identity are wrong or mis-leading.ie ,canadain content on our radios and TV.Just a question.
For the individual that posted that commentry from the Globe and Mail.Which issus did it come form please.Date and time.
It was a Commentary in Friday June 29, 2007 issue, just one day old.
Are babe, WJM and Wallace McClean, one and the same person?
Premier Danny Williams
Economic Club of Toronto
May 3, 2007
Good morning ladies and gentlemen and thank you so much to the Economic Club of Toronto for your kind invitation to speak with you today.
I am truly humbled by the opportunity to speak here, especially after seeing papers promoting myself and another upcoming speaker. Here is my promotion in the National Post and here is Arnold Schwarzenegger’s. I should change my name to Danny Devito and ask the Governor if he wants to do "Twins II".
But seriously, I always welcome an opportunity to speak to what we in Newfoundland and Labrador call "mainland" Canada. I welcome the opportunity because I think that though we are sometimes misunderstood as a province, we are at the core very much like our friends here in Ontario.
We all strive to be the best that we can be. We all have as our common objective to secure a greater future for our children and grandchildren. And we all believe in the fundamental values that make this country the greatest place on earth to live.
I believe that success for the country as a whole is best achieved by the individual successes of provinces and territories. And though I am sometimes compared to Hugo Chavez, or assailed by national editorialists as a juvenile showman, my desire is to have the rising tide of the Newfoundland and Labrador economy lift all boats across this country.
For my entire life, I have always thrived on challenges. Most things in life worth having often require you to face obstacles – sometimes minor and sometimes significant.
I discovered this to be true whether I was in the courtroom, in the boardroom, or on the hockey rink. And the best challenges result in effecting meaningful and powerful change for others.
When I entered the political arena almost seven years ago, it was not because of a lifelong ambition, but because if I had not tried to make a difference, I would have failed a province that had given me so much.
I learned from experience that the potential was there to achieve great success in Newfoundland and Labrador. But after years of experience, I was also frustrated that so many opportunities for growth were being missed, lost or mismanaged.
Napoleon said "Leaders are dealers in hope." And my goal was to launch our province on the road to hope and prosperity.
This is why I fight so passionately and vocally against federal leaders when they let us down.
Disraeli once said, "The English nation is never so great as in adversity." Newfoundland and Labrador is no different.
Let me share with you the facts about our province and then you can make your own informed decision about what Newfoundland and Labrador really stands for.
When we joined confederation almost 58 years ago, we had cash in the bank, but our per-capita debt increased tenfold the very day we joined. We were a nation that had come through the war in good financial shape and abundant in natural resources. Since confederation, things have changed.
For starters, we gave away our right to manage the offshore oil and gas resources that we didn’t fully realize we had at the time.
We passed them over to Canada, even though other jurisdictions in the country fully own and manage their resources because they are under ground instead of under water.
In the late 60’s, we also lost most of the return on our Upper Churchill hydro-power resource to Québec, which received an outrageously-lopsided contract for 70 years to buy and sell our power after the federal government refused to allow Newfoundland and Labrador to transmit our power through Quebec.
Our loss is estimated at 1.3 billion dollars minimum every year – a billion dollars from our resource that goes directly into Quebec’s revenues. Our return is approximately 75 million dollars annually.
And yet this year once again, we see Quebec receive massive benefits from equalization changes while Newfoundland and Labrador is made to beg for what was promised.
At the time of the Upper Churchill contract, the Prime Minister of the day told our Premier that the price of doing otherwise could have been civil unrest in Quebec. Sounds extreme. But the reality is that we made the sacrifice for the sake of national unity.
In entering confederation, we also lost the power to manage our fisheries, and Ottawa in turn used its control of our fishery to trade quotas to other countries in so doing, it mismanaged some species of our domestic fishery to the point of commercial extinction.
As a result of this mismanagement, tens of thousands of people have been forced to leave our province. But even in the face of that great adversity, accepting defeat was never an option for us.
We are determined to cultivate greater moral autonomy – no longer letting others decide what is good for us; but finding our moral compass within and defining our own values and priorities.
We are cultivating greater cultural autonomy and projecting ourselves as a distinct, innovative, determined, courageous and confident people.
And we are cultivating greater financial autonomy by acting responsibly, strategically and competitively.
It’s not separation we crave, but respect. Self-respect breeds self-confidence, self-determination and self-reliance, economically and socially.
Our change in attitude started slowly after the collapse of the ground fishery. We started by diversifying into the shellfish industry and we have recently invested unprecedented amounts of money in aquaculture opportunities.
And we have turned to new economic opportunities including our burgeoning oil and gas sector which has helped to define the new face of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Just recently, John Lau, CEO of Husky Energy stated that the relationship between his company and our province is so transparent that it has resulted in a level of trust that is unusual between companies and governments.
Last week, our provincial budget forecasted a surplus of 261 million dollars, which is an affirmation of the direction our government has taken. Improved revenues, a strengthened economy and fiscal responsibility, have given our province the capacity to make strategic investments in priority areas.
The Canadian Federation of Independent Business commended it as a model budget for Atlantic Canada.
In our budget, we announced 32 million dollars specifically for both business attraction and business grants, in addition to more than 70 million dollars in business assistance programs for various sectors.
When you add to this our very competitive business tax regimes, Newfoundland and Labrador has a great deal to offer investors.
But absolutely nothing compares with our bountiful supply of energy. We may not have Alberta’s oil sands, but collectively Newfoundland and Labrador has a tremendous diversity of energy assets.
The Upper Churchill is one of the world’s greatest hydroelectric-generating stations, and at the Lower Churchill River development, there flows one of the continent’s great untapped sources of hydroelectricity; a clean renewable energy source of 2,800 megawatts just waiting to be developed. That is enough power to light up more than one and a half million homes.
The Churchill River developed in total would be the clean equivalent of 225,000 barrels of oil a day forever and the equivalent of taking 3 million cars off the road. Clean electricity at its very finest. If the federal government wants a green initiative there is no better place to start.
In addition, Labrador has the best wind power regime in North America.
And we are working with your Premier Dalton McGuinty to see if we can deliver some of this energy right here in Ontario where you so desperately need it.
Our challenge is to get cooperation from Quebec and let me tell you they do not make it easy. But we are extremely pleased by the approach of Ontario’s government and particularly the support of Minister Dwight Duncan who has said that this project is an exciting one for your province.
The Ontario government is also a staunch supporter of an east-west power grid, which is fundamental to effectively meeting the future energy needs across this great country.
Unfortunately, Quebec is fundamentally opposed to such a concept with federal government involvement. I cannot understand how opposing such a wonderful national initiative can be considered good for the country – especially in these days of climate change and environmental urgency.
Without Quebec’s cooperation, the alternative for our province will be that we send our power south to New Brunswick and the U.S. They are equally as hungry this is a very feasible and real option that we are actively pursuing right now due to stumbling blocks in Quebec.
Newfoundland and Labrador simply cannot allow ourselves to be restricted by a province that monopolizes power transmission.
I am hopeful that Quebec will choose to work with us, as opposed to against us as we start to move this project forward. Stranded clean energy in Labrador and the North West Territories is a green setback for the country.
And I would hope that they would not oppose potential federal participation, just as we do not oppose the substantial federal contributions and industry subsidies that annually bolster the Quebec economy.
As all provinces do, we depend upon federal government dollars to an extent but we have also made substantial and meaningful contributions to this country.
For example, over the course of the life of our current offshore oil and gas projects, the federal government will receive an estimated 20 billion dollars, and our nickel from Voisey’s Bay helps to employ workers in Ontario and Manitoba thereby feeding into your economies.
If you extrapolate the numbers in simplistic terms, it is estimated that 25 % of INCO’s Sudbury workforce and 38% of the Thompson workforce are employed as the result of nickel coming from Newfoundland and Labrador.
So contrary to some myths, we do contribute to this great country.
Newfoundland and Labrador’s three offshore oil projects to date have generated about 11 billion dollars for the companies, 5 billion dollars for the federal government and 2 billion dollars for my province.
We have used our new revenues to pay down debt, eliminate our deficit and ultimately achieve credit rating upgrades from our three bond rating agencies.
These revenues have enabled us to turn the fiscal corner and among other things implement personal income tax cuts.
People may say, well things cannot be too bad in your province if you are implementing tax cuts and announcing surpluses. But that is far too simplistic a reaction. We all know that competitive tax regimes are critical to economic diversification and success.
With a competitive business tax regime and now with a competitive personal tax regime we are able to offer our province as an even more attractive place to invest.
Ironically, Newfoundland and Labrador has been described disparagingly as the poor cousin of Confederation – as defeatists who do not want to or know how to take care of ourselves.
Recent national editorials – which are not worthy of repeating - summarize some of the more xenophobic attitudes towards me and my province. These same papers disparage us and berate our position. But when I sent an opinion editorial piece to the Globe and Mail to defend our position, they refused to print it.
When our province brought down our fiscally and socially responsible budget last week, our best budget in decades – not one word was printed. Not a story, not a sidebar, not a mention.
When federal money went to Quebec to facilitate tax cuts, the story was still about Newfoundland and Labrador whining and complaining.
When we as a province implement tax cuts on our own merit and financial responsibility, they do not bother to report that to the rest of the country.
A misinformed author of the Western Standard recently implied that my province has a "culture of defeat" and – I assume this was my biggest offence of all – I actually had the nerve to insist that the Prime Minister keep an election commitment. The same Prime Minister who attributed a culture of defeat to all Atlantic Canadians in 2002.
A Prime Minister named Stephen Harper who in 2001 said that Liberal ridings west of Winnipeg are "dominated by people who are either recent Asian immigrants or recent migrants from Eastern Canada: people who live in ghettos and who are not integrated in Western Canadian society." A sad commentary indeed.
And to be clear, the Prime Minister’s commitment - given verbally and in writing on countless occasions – was that non-renewable natural resource revenues would be removed from the equalization formula. His promise had nothing to do with protecting the Atlantic Accord as he claims today. Those words were never even mentioned by him when he was looking for our votes.
In promising to remove non-renewable resource revenues from the equalization formula, he explained his reason of economic development by saying "the hope is if you leave the resource royalties there, they will generate over time much larger permanent revenue flows in other areas which is what the experience in Alberta has been."
So you can imagine my surprise when in this years budget that promise was not only ignored; but the Prime Minister decided to also penalize us while bolstering other provinces like Quebec.
In addition, he has decided to unilaterally make changes to the Atlantic Accord, which we fought so hard to achieve with Paul Martin’s government, and put a cap on our ability to benefit financially.
In doing so, he has breached the letter, spirit and intent of an agreement between two governments that was signed to develop an industry.
Now, I know there has been much debate about what this cap means. Many think – because the federal government has chosen to spin it this way – that Newfoundland and Labrador wants to be richer than Ontario. We want to have a greater fiscal capacity and still take equalization. We want to double dip.
This is simplistic and an easy and attractive argument for the federal government to make. But let’s face the facts here folks. Does anyone in this room honestly believe that Newfoundland and Labrador is fiscally better off than Ontario?
Do people honestly believe that a fiscal cap figure – one that is fundamentally artificial due to the manner in which it is calculated – means that the people of our province are richer or better off than the people of Ontario? Here are the facts.
Our debt expense per capita for every man, woman and child is twice that of the next worst province in the country. Our unemployment rate is the highest in the country at 14.8 percent compared to 6.3 percent nationally.
Our per capita disposable income is the lowest in the country, and our per capita incomes are the lowest in the country with real incomes 26 percent below the national average.
Our population is more widely dispersed that any other province with 1.4 people per square km compared to 12 per square km in Ontario, making essential services more costly to deliver.
These are the real facts about our fiscal capacity. If debt expense alone was deducted we would be below Ontario’s fiscal capacity.
But we are working hard and making real progress to turn all of these indicators around for our province.
The Prime Minister’s complete lack of recognition of his promise is only slightly less alarming than his seemingly "anything to win a majority" attitude. This attitude has now extended to his Finance Minister condoning federal finance officials providing misleading information to independent economists in order to reach inaccurate conclusions to foster a deceptive agenda.
When the federal Minister of Finance and the Prime Minister resort to these tactics to win at all costs, Canadians beware. This is conduct unbecoming elected officials in the highest offices in our country and moreover it is dangerous.
Just two weeks ago, while Minister Flaherty was trying to convince Newfoundlanders and Labradorians that his government had not misled our province, his own officials were apologizing in writing for doing exactly that. While the Prime Minister and his finance minister continue to untruthfully state they kept their promise their own Deputy House Leader MP Tom Lukiwski, admitted they did not.
Over the last month, I have cautioned the Canadian people about the trustworthiness of this government and their propensity to provide misleading and inaccurate information to further their own interests.
Government’s handling of the Afghanistan detainee situation verify this as well, as do the recent words of Al Gore when he stated that this government’s climate change plan is a complete fraud designed to mislead the Canadian people. We should be very leery of this pattern.
That is why I am encouraging Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and Canadians in the next federal election to vote ABC – Anything But Conservative.
When we signed the Atlantic Accord there was elation and euphoria throughout our province. Finally, the fiscally poorest partner in confederation would have the opportunity to use its own resources to kick-start the kind of growth that would build a sustainable future.
Once that oil and gas is pumped out it is gone for good. Each and every development has a defined shelf life and when the resource is gone, so too is our ability to use the financial benefits for our province’s good.
And though we have some great projects on stream, they will not last forever. Hibernia will not last through my children’s lifetime, nor mine if I live to see 70.
The issue for me it is not about handouts from Ottawa. It is about allowing us to use our resources to our own advantage, so that once they are gone we do not revert back to the fiscal reliance that existed in our province before oil and gas development.
We are truly in a catch-22 situation where we cannot escape fiscal dependency without developing these resources and yet if we develop them the benefits will be clawed away from us so that we will never be able to use them to escape fiscal dependency.
So why would a Prime Minister break a written promise that significantly penalizes our province?
I think the answer is fairly clear. We are facing a federal election and in the House of Commons there is no equality among provinces. Seats are distributed by population, and unfortunately for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador our numbers are often not deigned significant enough to matter.
It is shameful that our quest to have a Prime Minister keep a written commitment to our people is ridiculed while a commitment to the province of Quebec resulting in several hundreds of billions of dollars over the next decade is ignored.
This Prime Minister stood up in the commons in the last week and mocked a milestone Newfoundland and Labrador budget. We don’t deserve that kind of treatment. We are too honest and hard working and proud a people.
We don’t begrudge others improving their lot, but don’t pit provinces against one other. Don’t take from one to give to another. Don’t break firm written commitments. Honor them. And if other provinces suffer by virtue of your promises then find another means to make them whole.
Not only was the promise broken, but as I alluded to earlier the federal government has since misled an independent economist in our province. They allowed a decent and honest man to put his reputation on the line by feeding him information that was inaccurate to the point where this economist had to go public and release emails from federal officials who admitted they misled him.
It was the most shameful, dishonourable thing I have ever witnessed in politics. To this day, the federal finance minister insists they did nothing wrong. And they continue to get away with this blatant misleading of the public.
I can tell you now that if this Prime Minister can so easily and blatantly break a promise to us, just imagine what he will do to you if he wins a majority government.
His word is meaningless. His promises are lip service to win votes. And he will do absolutely whatever he has to in order to win power.
You may not agree with my position and maybe you don’t agree with the promise that Stephen Harper made to our province. But that does not change the fact that he made the promise, he broke his promise and you could be next. Let our experience be a lesson to all Canadians.
Collectively, we as fellow Canadians make Canada stronger by enabling one another to use our individual strengths to enrich the federation and make all of us stronger than we would otherwise be.
Let’s start realizing that national unity is absolutely meaningless unless it is backed up by tangible actions that enable us to live up to our optimum potential and stand securely on our own strengths.
I encourage the Prime Minister to consider the words of George Washington "Undertake not what you cannot perform but be careful to keep your promise."
His failure to do so will be to the detriment of this great country.
Let all of us as Canadians work even harder than ever before to make Canada what it truly ought to be – a land of promise and opportunity, not just at the centre, but also at Canada’s rural hinterlands where our ancestors learned hard but true lessons that there is no survival without friendship and cooperation and most importantly trust.
Thank you.
If this man cannot bring change to the province ,then I say its time to leave.
As Always Patriot
Are anonymous, anonymous, anonymous, anonymous, republican and starrigan the same person?
i not the same as anonymous.
signed anonymous
You can always tell when people are getting really frustrated and just overwhelmed by the difference between what they believe and what the facts are.
That's when the massive cut and paste jobs start.
Cognitive dissonance is a bitch.
Absolutely Not! How about you?
You didn't answer my question babe/WJM/Wallace MLean. Is the answer Yes?
Ed - The article by Michael Temelini was too wonderful not to copy and paste. And the fact it got published with all the information that it contained by the Globe and Mail was a turning point. Thanks Globe and Mail, we appreciate it!
good question, anonymous. but since canada doesnt really have a well-established culture that i can see, cancon programs were/are about creating the illusion of a culture rather than protecting or preserving one.
a lot of cancon stuff was dire and should never have seen the light of day (anyone remember king of kensington?)but some of it has been good (cbc did up at ours and lots of local newfoundland programming, as i expect they did in other parts of the country).
i think a country should have programs that support art and artists, partly because that is an important aspect of any society and partly because it creates pockets of economic activity. and i like the fact that federal programs have supported art and artists in newfoundland; no doubt people in other provinces feel the same about their art and artists.
so no, i dont think cancon regulatons are wrong or misleading, they just arent protecting a vibrant culture.
and oh - i cant speak for the other folks, but im only one person :-)
Ed you wrote this childest statement: "You can always tell when people are getting really frustrated and just overwhelmed by the difference between what they believe and what the facts are.
That's when the massive cut and paste jobs start.
Cognitive dissonance is a bitch."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed the above statement is the most childish little rant that I have ever heard.
Ed, Sir, it appears to me that you wish that the bad economic situation in the province of Newfoundland and Labrador never changes, because it appears that from creating friction is where you earn your living.
It also appears that you wish that the Globe and Mail Newspaper would continue to stay in the same orbit and NEVER publish an article that reveals the truth of situation in Newfoundland and Labrador as it pertains to the distribution of our resources, the lack of distribution of high paying Federal Government Offices and Military bases, despite the fact we provide approximately 9 per cent of the Military Personnel in this province of Newfoundland and Labrador. My opinion is you wish that this province and its people stay in a state of flux forever. It is not good enough that we have been forever disadvantaged, you want us Ed to be disadvantaged for eternity. If that is not the case, you are portraying the wrong message in your posts Ed. If that is not what you mean and you want us to glean from your writings, then you better start posting so that we all can come away with a different and more positive message.
Over the past two hours since you last posted I thought about what you wrote today and what you have written in the past when you think this side is getting the upper hand, and the only reasoning that I can make out of your posts is that you do want things to change. You, Sir,want to keep the status quo. Of course there is an old adage that goes something like this: "it is an ill wind that doesn't blow somebody some good. So all I can do is ask a straight forward question and that is by keeping the province of Newfoundland and Labrador down you are you WELL REWARDED!!!
Again I want to express my appreciation to the Globe and Mail for breaking the pattern of NOT allowing an article to be printed in its paper in the past with all the details that explained what happened for the province of Newfoundland and Labrador to have floundered so badly.
Please keep the channel open Globe and Mail, the province of Newfoundland and Labrador will pull through it hard times and it will keep gracing Canada the way that it always did. There are enough resources to look after one-half million souls in the province of Newfoundland and Labrador and to help some of the other provinces as well. From this day forward, we need to be treated with DIGNITY and that means enough of our resources should be left here to keep this province running smoothly. Thanks for reading my article and God Bless us in our future endeavours and that future will include you Ed.
And Ed I wish you nothing but the best, you deserve to make a good living in this province as well, but we need to be pulling on the same oar to make sure that it happens for all of us.
babe in boyland
"so no, i dont think cancon regulatons are wrong or misleading, they just arent protecting a vibrant culture."
Im confused babe.The hole point of the crtc is to protect "Canadiana" is it not.Personally i think this is what lead canada into the situation that we see today.
I like to describe it in the same terms that the education minister in ontario presently used."
"If we allow every single ethnic culture in Ontario,to have its own school system,we will surely be spelling the death of public education"
To be frank i think that Canada is its own worse enemy.Without a focal point to concentrate its identity on we as a country are doomed befor we start.I think that is what we have been seeing in Quebec,Alberta ,and now Newfounland.
And i can see the points made by many Newfounlanders and labradorians.On the same hand I see what alot of federalist say as well.What it all comes down to for me is eqaulity.if one province is treated a certain way and another is given a differant agreement ,for better or for worse ,there can be no peace.
With-out change to the current political system i can see the death of Canada.But,In the defence of Newfoundland and Labrador I feel that they as a Province have given a great deal to confederation in terms of help towards other provinces ,Namely Ontario and more so Quebec.And,i do see the fear they have towards the country splitting up ,ie, the churchhill.
I truely think that if canada wishes to save itself from what I fell is only time,they must find a hero that can force change thru the country at the federal level ,and more importantly in Quebec.
Personally I like the look of a more EU type governement.There is no sence stopping half way to were we are,We just need that little push.
"Ed - The article by Michael Temelini was too wonderful not to copy and paste. And the fact it got published with all the information that it contained by the Globe and Mail was a turning point. Thanks Globe and Mail, we appreciate it!"
Of course, too wonderful simply means "he spouts all the half-truths and distortions I already accept and won't let go of."
It's hardly a turning point since the original premise of you or whoever - namely that the Globe is evil and only gives one side of the story - was, not surprisingly, false in the first place.
"The hole point of the crtc is to protect "Canadiana" is it not."
i dont know what the whole point of the crtc is. i never gave it much thought till today. but i know it is the canadian broadcasting regulator. i guess that role would include an awful lot of safety, equity and fairness stuff like allocating frequencies for broadcast (so media outlets arent all trying to use the same frequency and messing each other up), preventing adult material from being seen before children are likely to go to bed, preventing misleading advertising being shown, ensuring different media providers have fair access to air time and meet various standards. cancon quotas are probably one of many facets of the regulatory agency.
im confused too. it seems like youre saying canada needs a focal point to concentrate its identity on. i thought most folks on this blog (and an awful lot out in western canada and quebec and up north in nortwest territories and so on) believe Canada DOES have that focal point - Ontario - to the detriment of the outlying areas and non-wasp identities.
If you had actually read anything I've written and genuinely understood it, anon-whicheveryouare - you would not have written this simple, but utterly false comment:
"You, Sir,want to keep the status quo."
Absolutely not.
What I want to dispose of are the half-truths and distortions some people spread and the marvelously misguided "pulling on the same oar" myth.
There's an old adage: "when everyone is thinking the same, no one is thinking."
Pulling on the same oar, that is, the blind, unquestioning support of one proposition or another based on "patriotism" is exactly what got Newfoundland and labrador into an economic mess a couple of times in the last century.
I portray exactly what I want to portray.
Someone people deliberately misrepresent it. Others just simply miss the point because it is inconvenient to think there might just be an equally, valid, alternative view. I suspect you fall into the latter category.
Then again if by "making a living" you are referring to the unsubstantiated smear about my motives others are promoting then you are simply another one of the anony-slaggers whose own motives need to be questioned.
Some anon wrote:
"Personally I like the look of a more EU type governement.There is no sence stopping half way to were we are,We just need that little push."
Why do not just go all the way?
Why turn a country that is working very well compared to most others and that produces a standard of living among the best in the world and reduce it to the United Nations of Europe?
If you want to separate, make the argument and go right ahead. As in Quebec though, don't expect that the rest of Canada will readily accept the premise that there can be an independent country within an independent country.
Take a hard look though. i don't think you'll be finding too many people willing to go quite that far. They are so addicted to federal hand-outs that they muse about separation or quasi-separation rather than making the province a truly successly, economcially vibrant place. They have the tools at their disposal right now. They just prefer to talk about having someone else pay the bill.
I call it the dependence of "independence" and the position they take is about a logical as that statement is.
babe in boyland said...
i dont know what the whole point of the crtc is. i never gave it much thought till today.
Just have a look at thier mission statement Babe.I think It will make you have a second look .OH ,and I am the same person, HA HA :)
Ed, the conversion doesnt concern you ,and I'm asking you to please concern yourself with another topic.
My name isn't spelled like Diehard's and I'm not babe.
Ed you say talk about half-truths when we know they are truths.
We know where our fish went. We know where our Upper Churchill Hydroelectricity went. We know where our Nickel Ore went. We know where the Oil is going to be processed. We know none of the processing and marketing is done in Newfoundland and Labrador, except for some fish. We know that we do not have any Federal Regional Offices here with high paying jobs and despite the fact we supply 9 per cent of the Military Personnel, we do not have a Military Base here in the Province. We know what we have, what we export, what is being processed by the other provinces, and what we do not have with regards to high paying Federal Regional Offices and Military bases. How can you make the statement that these facts are half truths. You are the one who is being deceitful. Stop trying to cover things up for the Federal Government Ed, would you please?
We know where our Nickel Ore went.
I do, too: into the concentrator at Voisey's Bay, Labrador. Nickel ORE doesn't go any farther than that.
We know where the Oil is going to be processed.
To a refinery, I hope.
We know that we do not have any Federal Regional Offices here with high paying jobs
There is a regional DFO office in St. John's, HQ for Marine Atlantic, a RevCan tax centre, and NL has one of the highest federal civil service per-capita job counts and per-capita federal employment earnings of any of the ten provinces.
and despite the fact we supply 9 per cent of the Military Personnel, we do not have a Military Base here in the Province.
Yes, we do. Where does your 9 per cent figure come from? And how is it connected to the location of military bases?
I hope everybody picked up their copy of the "Temelini Truths" in hard copy and didn't go to the Globe site.
They'll track you, you know.
"Ed, the conversion doesnt concern you ,and I'm asking you to please concern yourself with another topic.'
Which anonymous are you?
It's so hard to tell as you all look alike.
"Ed you say talk about half-truths when we know they are truths."
Well, apparently you don't since you - or is it some other anonymous who looks and writes like all the other anonymous - keep repeating the same thing. The things you keep repeating simply aren't true.
For example, where did the fish go?
Simply Too Radical !!!!Eddy's Making Friends Guys Look At This ,LOL!!!!Too Much !!!Thank-God I didn't Miss this Ha ,Ha !!!
simon your too much a HACK,Buddy,you were seen coming months ago dude
http://HoneyPOT.Org!!!!come and get some GOOF!!!!
They'll track you, you know.
why yes simon I do dont i !!!!
www.sans.org/giac
c'mon over and find out ,lol!!!
your a fuckin spinelss shit too !!!
U human experiment ,cmon and get some!!!
SIMON SAID: "I hope everybody picked up their copy of the "Temelini Truths" in hard copy and didn't go to the Globe site.
They'll track you, you know."
That particular article can be shared or emailed.
It states that on the bottom of the article.
You know the more you guys spend hitting the f5, the less time you have for your own personal self acctualization?
lol!!!!ok,.......................;)
"That particular article can be shared or emailed." - so whats in the email,lol!!!!
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070629.wconfld29/CommentStory/specialComment/HYAtlantic - Heres the link Guys ,dont download shit !!!!
ED YOUD SAID: There is a regional DFO office in St. John's, HQ for Marine Atlantic, a RevCan tax centre.
Ed, you know as well as I do that those are NOT THE FEDERAL REGIONAL OFFICES. The Federal Regional Office for DFO is in Ottawa, Marine Atlantic has more people in Nova Scotia than Newfoundland and Labrador and there are very few people who work with that organization anyhow, and we share the Revcan tax centre with P.E.I.
Nova Scotia has 17 Federal Regional Offices, New Brunswick has 16 Federal Regional Offices and we do not have one Federal Regional Office. Check it out for yourself.
Over the past 10 years we have had 32 per cent of the few Federal jobs that were here in the first place taken out of the province by Ottawa. The province of Newfoundland and Labrador had the biggest lost of Federal jobs of all the provinces.
Out of a Military Force of 66,000 there are only 335 Military Personnel stationed in the province of Newfoundland and Labrador. The Telegram ran a story on that issue a while back. I am sure if you contacted The Telegram you could get the information.
It is quite obvious that the component of three who don't want the province of Newfoundland and Labrador to get ahead operates right here on this blogsite. If that is not evident, it is little wonder that we aren't in the mess we are in? You only need three of this ilk anywhere in Canada, and the damage can be done. I wonder if their next door neighbours even know what they are up to. Who is paying the salaries for the three to operate? Get a regular jobs chaps, we don't need your type to bring us down further.
Ed you said:
What I want to dispose of are the half-truths and distortions some people spread and the marvelously misguided "pulling on the same oar" myth.
Thanks for looking out for us, you see we all know the half-truths and distortions, but thanks for caring. Now that your purpose has been fulfilled why don't you hop on the next a$$hole bus leaving town. Oh yes, and take Ottawally and Simple Simon with you. We would really like to make this an a$$hole free blog.
Bye bye
Some anon said:
"ED YOUD SAID: There is a regional DFO office in St. John's, HQ for Marine Atlantic, a RevCan tax centre.
Ed, you know as well as I do that those are NOT THE FEDERAL REGIONAL OFFICES. The Federal Regional Office for DFO is in Ottawa,"
Actually I don't recall mentioning marine Atlantic but it is a good one,along with the revenue Canada centre. Thanks for pointing them out.
DFO's regional office is in St. John's.
It's headquarters is in Ottawa but then again given that it manages sizeable fisheries on both coasts, and that Ottawa is the national capital, that makes perfect sense.
So obviously, you have accurate information, but are confused about some other things. Even when you have a regional office, and you know it is a regional office, you say it isn't a regional office at all because you call a regional office a headquarters. What nonsense on your part.
As for the military, are you saying that the military should be based somewhere because of how many people volunteer for the army, navy and air force? Let's be clear: you are suggesting that the army navy and air force be based around the country on something other than operational need, is that correct?
July 01, 2007 7:29 AM - Here ,Here .Well said .
June 30, 2007 6:35 PM
c'mon wallace ,you can do better then this duddly,this is a lousy show for you my man .Why not just break down and use the "N" word ,I know you want to .C'mon wallace say it.I know your muttering it under your breath ,c'mon,say it
"Stupid f%$#@ newfies"
You know you want to say it ,just like before .Just let it out .Youll feel so much better .
Is that you, Pius?
The typos and language look familiar.
I see you !!!!
According to the article I read in the Globe and Mail, The Vancouver Olympics organizing committee (VANOC) is Raising Ire For Spending Millions On Staff Bonuses - B.C.
HEAR THIS OUT - IT MUST BE GREAT TO BE FLUSHED WITH FEDERAL GOVERNMENT MONEY. The Vancouver Olympics organizing committee (VANOC) is putting $33 million aside for payments to keep its employees from leaving and to ensure they have a financial cushion while looking for post-Games employment.
Apparently the job market is so competitive, workers have to be paid extra to "retain" them, yet, when their lucrative Olympic job contracts run out, they need a safety net because they won't be able to find jobs? If people need to be paid "retention" premiums, how can anyone possibly argue they need unemplyment "insurance" from employers above and beyond what everyone else gets?
The article asked the question "Does anyone really believe for two seconds these people are being underpaid?"
I RECALL THAT OTTAWA gave the Olympics $700 million to put off the Olympics in B.C.
NOW LAST WEEK British Columbia asked the Feds for another $1 Billion to boast salaries in British Columbia FOR Pacific Gateway workers.
Are our Government Members taking note of what the other provinces receive?
I would like for certain VOCM Open Line Show hosts to put questions to a certain caller, who likes to make Newfoundlanders and Labradorians think he knows what he is talking about. This caller has a way with words but what he is trying to do is bring the province down while lifting himself up.
This caller doesn't want any Federal Regional Offices, he doesn't want a Federal Military Base to be placed here, he doesn't want us to take equity in our Oil, HE WANTS TO GIVE EVEYTHING AWAY. Isn't that the mentality of the politicians and their political groupies since the beginning of time in this province? We now have Premier Danny Williams who is saying that there will be "no more giveaways", I hope it is not a "smoke screen" and I hope that what is saying he will hold true to his words.
We all know in this world of "rapid communication" it will be a lot harder for the Prmier to pull that kind of stunt over our heads like former Premiers did. I have to say that I have all the faith in the world that he won't do it, but I will not bet my life that it won't happen. I am just hoping beyond hope that we have an HONEST Premier this time around.
I was out and about this morning in St. John's and unlike previous years where I would see a number of block parties celebrating Canada, I saw just one. I wonder if the people are getting the message of how we are really treated in Canada, and after finding out they have become disinterested in celebrating?
Great Article Mr. Tembelini!!! I am wondering has Memorial University finally allowed its Professors to use their voices. I believed they were silenced for many years. I am glad to hear a voice with a message full of information after all of these years. Keep up the great work Mr. Temebelni.
Please do not go silent on us after that great article that you had published by the Globe and Mail. Hopefully we will see many more in that National Newspaper.
"This caller has a way with words but what he is trying to do is bring the province down while lifting himself up."
Oooh. ohh.
Who are you talking about?
What are the questions?
"I am just hoping beyond hope that we have an HONEST Premier this time around."
Are you saying Tom Rideout wasn't honest? Brian Peckford wasn't honest? Frank Moores was a liar?
There might have been only one or two Premiers who made a boo boo out of things. I am not sure who they were or where I can appoint the blame, but I do know that there were enough mistakes made with our resources that somebody darn well should stand up and either say "it was me" or "it was not me" who made the particular mistakes that were made. I cannot say who made mistakes, all I can say is I know that Premier Williams is telling us that there will be no more "give aways" and, as of yet, I truly have not seen or heard of any under his premiership. Maybe it is a case of hindsight again, and we shall have to wait for the results of his premiership before we will be able to give him an "A", or a "B",or a "C" or a "F" for the quality of his Premiership. Hopefully it will be an "A".
But Please God, I hope and pray at the end of his term, we will be able to say, "YES" for once in our Canadian life, we have had things done the way they should have been done in the first case and Thank You Very Much Premier Williams for stopping the bleeding of our resources and creating a dynamic economy. Time will tell, of course, but if Premier Williams sticks to his promises, it can and it will happen the way that we want the outcome to be.
We are in a world of rapid communication with two of the largest nations on earth, China and India, going forward in leaps and bounds with the development of their economies. Together with those Nations and our resources, we will make it happen.
First things come first though, those nations have to know that the resources are here ready and waiting to go to market to assist them in their endeavour of emerging into the 21st Century with good economic health.
According to the article I read in the Globe and Mail, (VANOC Raising Ire For Spending Millions On Staff Bonuses - B.C.
It's great to be flushed with Money. The Vancouver Olympics organizing committee (VANOC) is putting $33 million aside for payments to keep its employees from leaving and to ensure they have a financial cushion while looking for post-Games employment.
Apparently the job market is so competitive, workers have to be paid extra to "retain" them, yet, when their lucrative Olympic job contracts run out, they need a safety net because they won't be able to find jobs? If people need to be paid "retention" premiums, SAYS THE ARTICLE, how can anyone possibly argue they need unemployment "insurance" from employers above and beyond what everyone else gets?
The article asked the question "Does anyone really believe for two seconds these people are being underpaid?"
If my memory serves me correct the Ottawa Federal Government passed over $700 million to assist Vancouver with the upcoming Olympics; and just this past week British Columbia asked Ottawa for a futher $1 billion dollars to bulk up wages for British Colubia workers.
It appears to me that some provinces can get money for anything, over and over, while Newfoundland and Labrador can't get Ottawa to assist it in getting what is right from our province's resources, Upper Churchill Hydroelectricity and Oil, let alone getting money without having to give up one of our resources for that money.
I have a quesion.And ,maybe Ed can answer this for me .Ed why does it always sound like your trying to convince the people around you that your always right. On any subject matter that is presented to you . Are you a politican.
Anonymous, I have a question for you:
who are you and why do you ask?
A Good day to atone for You SINS canada.shame ,shame.
Newfoundland and Labrador can't get Ottawa to assist it in getting what is right from our province's resources, Upper Churchill Hydroelectricity and Oil, let alone getting money without having to give up one of our resources for that money.
The Upper Churchill produces oil?
No, it should have read: Newfoundland and Labrador couldn't get Ottawa to assist it in getting what is right from our province's resources, the Upper Churchill Hydroelectricity and our Oil resource.
These are two energy resources that the whole world is craving, and they along could have made this province a wonderfully thriving province economically, but as you know the Hydroelectric Energy had to go to Quebec, since Quebec would not allow us a corridor to transport the power, while every other jurisdiction in Canada did not face the same problems with their hydro, gas and oil energy resources. The other provinces received the right from their neighbouring provinces to transport their energies to markett. And of course our Oil has not created any substantial jobs here in the processing and manufactuirng sectors, the only jobs created are to pump the oil out from under the sea and ship it to two refineries in Atlantic Canada and then off to the United States for consumption to keep its industries humming.
Yes I agree with you WJM, if you ask the question "Whose fault is that? Why did our politicians allow that to happen in the first place?
"I cannot say who made mistakes, all I can say is I know that Premier Williams is telling us that there will be no more "give aways" and, as of yet, I truly have not seen or heard of any under his premiership."
i heard on the news there was $15 million given to some of mr williams old business partners for some cable deal. and what about the special payment money (2800 dollars)that all the mhas gave for themselves and never gave back till they were caught.
those sound a lot like giveaways to me.
i think ALL polilticians should be watched like hawks. otherwise, they start thinking everything they do is great and start making stupid mistakes. thats why we have a government and opposition system - the opposition is supposed to be watching the government for us.
We had a great time at Confederation Hill yesterday afternoon and at the fireworks in the evening at Quidi Vidi!! Thousands of people turned out....Canadian pride is alive and well in Newfoundland!!
i heard on the news there was $15 million given to some of mr williams old business partners for some cable deal. and what about the special payment money (2800 dollars)that all the mhas gave for themselves and never gave back till they were caught.
those sound a lot like giveaways to me.
Unreal ,I dont believe what I'm hearing again.When are you guys going to get over that .That borders on the brink of sheer lunacy .Now this is were I will say that Newfoundlanders are a bunch of whiney babys,cause even when they get a great deal and something goes thier way they still bitch and find reason to complain.So what his buddys got the contract.Who really gives two shits who git it as long as the province got a killer deal.And from what I can tell they certanly did .
That very same network installed anywere else in canada would have cost Millions ,and Millions more then what Newfoundland paid.And I know. My company had a bid on it.Even when the guy does something right ,you damb him to hell .
15 million wouldnt even come close in Ontario or Quebec.Not even near the price.If Danny got it for that ,you guys should be patting him on the back. Ha Ha ,what a buch .You guys are to much .
"That very same network installed anywere else in Canada would have cost Millions, and Millions more then what Newfoundland paid. And I know. My company had a bid on it.Even when the guy does something right ,you damb him to hell."
That's an interesting claim given that you decided to post anonymously and therefore we don't know who you are.
If your company had a bid on the project, as you claim, then that would mean you work for Persona, MTS Allstream, or Rogers. There were actually no bids since the companies submitted an unsolicited proposal.
Of course if you worked on that project, you'd know the actual cost was $82 million.
What does that tell us?
You actually don't know anything about the project at all and do not work for any company involved in the telecom business, let alone one of tbe ones involved in this project.
Well, either that or you are working for one of the companies or from government and are actually trying to spread misinformation about the whole deal.
There's another reason to stop anony-posting. It shuts out the wankers. Then again, ...oh never mind.
You fuckin newfies are too much.Anything for an arguement.
These are two energy resources that the whole world is craving,
The whole world is craving the Upper Churchill? How would we ever transmit its power to even the western half of this continent, let alone any other?
and they along could have made this province a wonderfully thriving province economically, but as you know the Hydroelectric Energy had to go to Quebec, since Quebec would not allow us a corridor to transport the power,
And yet we went ahead with the development anyway, boxing it into a financial corner. Why?
while every other jurisdiction in Canada did not face the same problems with their hydro, gas and oil energy resources.
Which other province in Canada has ever sought a hydro corridor, across which other province, using the federal declaratory power?
And since the early 1980s, this province has had the right to seek such a corridor across Quebec under the National Energy Board's powers. Quebec fought it when the Trudeau government amended the legislation to allow that, but they lost. Why has NL never sought the use of that power? Hmm?
And of course our Oil has not created any substantial jobs here in the processing and manufactuirng sectors, the only jobs created are to pump the oil out from under the sea and ship it to two refineries in Atlantic Canada and then off to the United States for consumption to keep its industries humming.
Oil is inanimate, so it is utterly uncaring and unfeeling about whether it creates jobs or not.
There's nothing stopping you from opening a refinery or petrochemicals plant. Knock yourself out!
Hey anonymous, how did the Canada Day crowds compare to the Glorious National Non-Partisan Rally of Love Towards Glorious Leader that Peter Whittle organized?
Strange indeed that some provinces can request a billion dollar payment from Ottawa to augment salaries in a particular province , and for the same province Ottawa sends another $700 million payment to help fund the Olympics, but yet Ottawa will not back funding for the Lower Churchill Energy Project.
WJM if we created industries from our hydroelectric and oil resource, then we could fine tune what we produced to what would be befitting to the development of China, India or where ever. It is no different than any other place utilizing those resources, they also have to have markets to sell the products produced to. We will operate on the same formula, but first things come first, and that is getting a plan in place and getting things in order.
yet Ottawa will not back funding for the Lower Churchill Energy Project.
How do we know that? Has anyone asked them to? And why should Ottawa do so, when Chairman Dan has already said "we are going it alone"? How can you go it alone with other people's money?
Strange indeed that someone would consistently say something that isn't true like this:
"...Ottawa sends another $700 million payment to help fund the Olympics, but yet Ottawa will not back funding for the Lower Churchill Energy Project."
That simply isn't true. It wasn't true 30 years ago when the federal government committed support for the project and it isn't true today (even though a formal request hasn't been submitted, apparently.)
Strange too that someone would also claim that "if we created industries from our hydroelectric and oil resource.." as if that hasn't happened already. Other industries can develop if they can be done here on an economic basis. otherwise you'll be recreating all things that helped generate a $12 billion debt.
Spouting untruths and proposing the same tired ideas that have failed in the past doesn't sound like much of a plan.
Spouting untruths and proposing the same tired ideas that have failed in the past doesn't sound like much of a plan.
"if we created industries from our hydroelectric and oil resource.." as if that hasn't happened already. "
Is this not the sign of a sick mind.What are you buddy .A fuckin lunatic.Thats why we have how many Newfoundlanders and Labradorians spewed around Canada and the world because we have so much at home right.
Can anyone tell me how this guy votes so I can do the opposite.Oh and about all the lieing that goes on this blog.It never happened until you showed up you fuckin moron.Go back to your own web page ed ,you piece of shit.
We would manufacture things which are needed Ed. I am sure there are many things that can be manufactured that can assist in the development of the two greatest nations on earth, China and India. What we were manufacturing in the past that failed were things that were not in a great demand. I believe two industries were glove and chocolate factories. No doubt we were competing with many industries which were long established and we were vying for the same customers.
Firstly, we do Need a Development Plan, we have to do our research properly on what is needed and get the markets in place before we develop our resources.
Ed I never saw anybody so anti-creating industry in the province of Newfoundland and Labrador than you. I don't know what your plan is for the province to move forward. I do think the only one you want to move forward is yourself. Actually I doubt if you have a plan other than to do what we always did give the resources away to the other Canadian provinces to keep on churning out manufactured goods and then accept equilization. That is nota very smart plan Ed, that is a very stupid way to do things. It is the same old, same old that will ensure that we stay poor and remain 'have-not' forever.
We need to develop our resources solely for processing and creating industry in this province and this province alone. Of course, any surplus resources will have to be marketed, but only after we don't need the excess right here.
"Ed I never saw anybody so anti-creating industry in the province of Newfoundland and Labrador than you."
Once again you chose to misinterpret or misrepresent.
"We" as in government don't need to do anything to stimulate the economy here other than create an environment for entrepreneurs to do the work and create jobs.
Just because I don't accept the simplistic give-aways argument you've swallowed doesn't mean anything other than I am opposed to the simplistic approach some people continue to advocate.
The sort of state-planning and state-control of everything you seem to advocate is largely why the place runs as as it does. Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, and others, can do just fine without having Big Brother looking over their shoulder directing this outcome or that outcome.
Been there, done that, still paying for the billion dollars worth of tee shirts that no one bought.
And by the way, why exactly do you insist on hiding your identity? What are you afraid of?
Spoken like a true red liberail ed ,you bastard .Stop being such a liar ed hollett,and go back to that blog you have.I dont agree with thease nationalist either,but your making the rest of us look stunned by argueing with them.Whats wrong with you my son.Stop acting like the fool ed .Giving thease people all this attention.Making them so popular.Go play with your buddys at MUN or something .And stop acting like the fool .
wow! i guess my first visit to this blog is goin to be the last. i enjoy reading a lot of blogs, be they personal ramblings, sport talk, history, current events, political discussions or just some humorous shiit, but this seems to be a propaganda machine run by an adolescent "Danny Wannabe". one who hasn't been around the block enough to know when he's being reeled in hook line and sinker. who in their right fukin mind believes a politician? my 12 yr old has more sense.
"The provincial government is defending its decision to go with an out-of-province company on a transportation contract. "
sa this on vocm tonite. sorry, just cant go with this. first we hear that our tourism telephone contract is gone to a Quebec firm, now a new brunswick consultant is developing a business plan for the translabrador highway.
cmon. you cant tell me no labrador businenssperson is sharp enough to do this. no business consultant in all the province??
hickey is saying its ok because the liberal opposition has been using that new brunswick consultant since 2002. since when is it ok for the new government to do it because the old corrupt government did it too??????
well, shit.
why did i vote for these guys in the first place? to be no MORE useless and stupid than the other guys? to be EXACTLY AS useless and stupid as the other guys??????
i give up. somebody tell me who this goverment is working for. i thought it was for newfoundlanders and labradorians. looks like its for the same old crowd of carpet baggers who sucked the life out of the previous government. quebec companies. new brunswick companies. doesnt THIS government think were good enough????????????
Canadian Citizenship is only 60 years olc.
If contracts keep going to bidders out of the province, Premier Danny will have to answer somewhere down the line in the not to distanct future as to WHY?
This is coming from one of his most ardent supporters. That type of government will be no different than what we have had in the past.
The Government is going to have to explain in point form every Contract that goes out of this province and the reason that no bidder inside the province was a winner.
I am now scared that after losing the contracts, that we have through the bidding process in the past year, that we are we going to give away the Lower Churchill Hydroelectric Energy Project and its resource to some other part of Canada, no differently than what we did in the 1960s with a 72 year contract to Quebec?
I do hope and pray our Premier will see us being the primary beneficiary of the Lower Churchill Hydroelectric resource, and that this will be our first succcessful venture into creating manufacturing industries in Labrador and Newfoundland with that wonderfully, clean Energy source.
June 29, 2007 Anonymous said...
You people are fucking morons.
July 1st "happened" 62 years before the battle of Beaumont Hamel.
Is there no end to the cowardice of some people... smack talk behind an anonymous post only shows the yellow down your spine maggot! Be a man and sign you name, otherwise shut up. I may not agree with the Ed's and WJM's of this world but I'll give props out to them for having the balls to say something and sign their name.
For the record dip shit, July 1st "happened" since we adopted a 12 month calandar!
Idiot.
http://fighting-newfoundlander.blogspot.com
I like this site, but the vulgarity coming from some of the posters should be stopped. Let us debate our points in a much friendlier forum.
There is absolutely no need for vulgarity at all.
babe in boyland posted this
(babe in boyland said...
"The provincial government is defending its decision to go with an out-of-province company on a transportation contract. "
saw this on vocm tonite. sorry, just cant go with this. first we hear that our tourism telephone contract is gone to a Quebec firm, now a new brunswick consultant is developing a business plan for the translabrador highway.
cmon. you cant tell me no labrador businenssperson is sharp enough to do this. no business consultant in all the province??
hickey is saying its ok because the liberal opposition has been using that new brunswick consultant since 2002. since when is it ok for the new government to do it because the old corrupt government did it too??????
well, shit.
why did i vote for these guys in the first place? to be no MORE useless and stupid than the other guys? to be EXACTLY AS useless and stupid as the other guys??????
i give up. somebody tell me who this goverment is working for. i thought it was for newfoundlanders and labradorians. looks like its for the same old crowd of carpet baggers who sucked the life out of the previous government. quebec companies. new brunswick companies. doesnt THIS government think were good enough????????????
July 03, 2007 12:40 AM )
I would like to know if preference was given to bidders from this province. Ususlly with tendering of this nature, preference is given to local bidders providing the bidders can meet the requirements/specifications of the tender. The LTC in Corner Brook would have been a lucrative contract for a local general contractor, as would the contract for the consultant regarding the Trans Labrador Hiway. Then we have the booking of campsites in this province funneling through a Quebec company. The government is spending a pile of cash to urge us to vacation at home but our booking fee for campsites goes to a Quebec firm, peculiar indeed.
Maybe our local bidders need a little bit of a leg up, or maybe we will have to do the same as British Columbia did last week, that is they asked the Federal Government for $1 Billion dollars to make salaries in that province more competitive so as to be able to retain their workers. What about the workers of Newfoundland and Labrador, everyone knows they are the lowest paid in Canada.
they'll keep being lowest paid if the province keeps shipping jobs to Quebec.
The way things are going Danny will just sign away the Lower Churchill and be done of it.
I am very much afraid that Premier Williams might not do the Lower Churchill Hydro Project with Labrador first and Newfoundland second in mind, with regard to creating industy. He has the bull by the horns in this case, if he lets it go, it will be nobody's fault but the Government of Nefoundland and Labrador's. We do not have to do that deal, so if we aren't going to benefit from it industry-wise, leave the rivers be, please do not disturb them Premier Williams. In the end we will all be better off because of it. And eventually after we have become richer from our oil resource, then we will be dependant on nobody to help us with the financing, we will be able to do it ourselves.
"they'll keep being lowest paid if the province keeps shipping jobs to Quebec.
The way things are going Danny will just sign away the Lower Churchill and be done of it."
im not worried that the premier will give away lower churchill power, not the way upper churchill was given away. he may not put labrador first in planning, but he wont give it away.
what im worried about is that all of his attention is on lower churchill and the "little things" like the tourism telephone contract and the labrador highway strategy and and rural jobs get forgotten about. its the little things that make an economy strong - small businesses, local spending, a job or two in a small community. with his mind on the big deal, the premier seems to be forgetting about what really pushes the economy and keeps communities alive.
and what happens if he doesnt get the big deal? then weve got nothing.
"its the little things that make an economy strong - small businesses, local spending, a job or two in a small community. with his mind on the big deal, the premier seems to be forgetting about what really pushes the economy "
Stupid question folks but dont you need people to make this work first.Just a thought.So whats going to come first.The chicken or the egg.
sorry i dont understand. of course an economy needs people to do the work and buy the stuff. we have people. and whats more they need the work and want to buy stuff. its a match made in heaven.
or did you have another point?
These are good points. We have to get beyond the megaproject mentality, not that there is anything wrong with pushing such projects forward. I simply want our government to focus on all aspects of the economy and work towards our strengths. We need to make educating our people a priority, I know this sounds cliche but it is true and we are not making it the priority it needs to be.
on an aside, I have a question for the proponents for keeping hydro power at home to grow industry within the province. which industries do you believe will set up in this province? We are seeing the demise of many hundreds of jobs in the industrial center of Canada mostly due to corporations preferring to set up in countries such as China for access to cheaper labour. Are we willing to offer up cheaper labour to these corporations in order to woo them here? Is anyone willing to provide an honest answer to this question, because frankly I know that people in this province are not willing to work for the wages paid in countries such as China. This is why I say we need to play to our strengths. I saw a news piece last night on how ocean engineering from here was done on the winning sailboat for the America's cup. We also had a local school do very well in a competition for ocean robitics recently as I recall. These are good examples as to why we need to educate our people at home to work in fields such as those related to the ocean. I don't see a future in us exclusively chasing after manufacturing jobs. Stephenville should be a shining example as to why we need to rethink this idea.
I say hold on to the river systems that would otherwise be diverted to form the Lower Churchill Hydroelectric Energy Project. Too many river systems already in this world have been diverted and converted into those destructive projects.
The province will derive more from that project by leaving the eco-systems intact. Down the road people will be clamoring to see such rivers the way nature made the. The province and Labrador in particular will derive a bigger boost to its economy from leaving the river systems in the state that nature made them than by harnessing those rivers to provide electricity, where some other place instead of the province of Newfoundland and Labrador will benefit.
Also when river systems are harnessed in such a way, it disrupts everything that abuts those river systems and far beyond.
Eco-tourism is a growing sector that produces strong economies and I think, eventually that is where Labrador, and the province in general will benefit the most. Please do not harness the rivers in question and destroy the eco-systems just for someplace else to benefit. Be Wise!
I have a question, I am wondering why would the Ottawa Federal Government have toed away two politicians from the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, namely Manning and Sullivan? Did it have anything to do with the Feds desire to weaken Premier Danny Williams Government? It appears to be too coincidental for it not to have any relevance. Nevertheless, it is just a question that I would like an answer to.
I notice that Aur Resource, owner of Duck Pond in Buchans, Newfoundland has received a $4.1 billion offer to sell its holdings to Tech Cominco. Tech is paying roughtly 10 times Aur's 2007 estimated cash flow per share, based on an average copper price of $2.93 (U.S.) a pound this year. That compares with the eight times cash flow per share CVRD offered to take over nickel giant Inco last year, and the nine times cash flow Xstrata paid for Falconbridge.
Base minerals arevery valuable commodities, I hope our Government and Premier Williams in general is taking note of everything that is happening in that sector.
I write this because I am wondering if there is anything coming down the pipeline in this province in that sector that will be given away for some place else to prosper.
you can be pretty much guaranteed. if its not lower churchill, the government is not paying attention.
After having read the fine piece posted by patriot, I thought I would complement you. Your thoughts are expressed well and of rare sentiment in our times. I read some of the comments and was disappointed with the inevitable bickering, but I suppose I should have expected as much.
Thank you very much for remembering your heritage and a time long past. There is more to learn from such experiences of course, and I couldn't help but think of how the comments of the British commander bring a sense of deja vu.
Being a descendant of Veterans from Galipoli, Vimi, Normandy, Sicily, and Korea, my sense of Rememberance is real, and my understanding of tragedy is all too clear.
I am of the opinion that politicians have shown little interest in Veterans or related issues once the sacrifices were made. It is disparaging to recall the treatment many disabled Veterans received on their return to Canada.
If you asked a high ranking federal politician a simple question about the Royal Newfoundland Regiment on any given day, I bet they wouldn't be able to answer.
Well my fellow thinker, I say never again. Never again should the brave and stout of heart fight the battles of the rich on foreign soil. Never again should we lose the best we have. We must maintain our resolve to better ourselves and not sacrifice our Sons.
If war is what the rich man wants, let him fight, let him live the horror. Then, and only then will he earn the right to stand on parliament hill on Nov 11 and wear that poppy.
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